The Wise Why

Tim Weaver
Good morning. How’s it going, Kirsty, are you well?

Kirsty van den Bulk
I am actually. I’m really looking forward to going. I’m look, I’m looking forward to Christmas. I’m looking forward to the holidays and I’m looking forward to not working.

Tim Weaver
I’m right up there with you. I think Christmas time is my favourite time because most people stop right. You know you can take a summer holiday or an Easter break, but you’ve got other people. Working and things around you but Christmas is. A complete stop and ever. Everyone goes. Finally, let’s relax and let’s get lost in those random days between the 25th and New Year’s Day as well. No one knows what on Earth going on, but at least you’re all in this wonderful magic of calm and serenity. And least in my opinion, until it goes mental in the new year again.

Kirsty van den Bulk
So tell me, because nobody know. I know you. And what one of the things I was asking about you and I said, well, I’m quite. Corporate with what I do. And then turns the other side. And actually what’s really lovely is we meet. In the middle and what? We can create together is really powerful, so I’d like you to explain about your branding, what you do and and your journey, how you got to where you are because it’s absolutely fascinating.

Tim Weaver
That’s that’s a. Big old can of worms to open up, but we’ve got a bit of time, so let’s let’s dive on in. So yeah, introductions. That’s probably normally how you start one of those things. And I dived in strange saying how I like the gap between Christmas and New Year. I am Tim. I am the owner and founder of the Brand Weaver agency. They’re a strategy, design and consultancy agency based in and and wonderful, Buckinghamshire. We work with the likes well, disruptors or those who want to be a little bit more edgy, bit more rebellious in their marketing and well, mainly their branding. And that might be a tattoo related paraphernalia, barbecues, drinks and spirits, beers and spirits in the comic books, all all that wonderful stuff. So that’s that’s a little bit of background about the Brand Weaver and it. Was set up. Just coming up to a year ago now, my personal journey was I was a creative director of an agency for 14 nearly 15 years and and the agency was very niche like they they were awesome. We had an amazing team as a team, around about 60. People, but all over the globe, but only working with the Independent School market. It and so I would rub shoulders with the headmaster of Harrow or Repton or Harbour Westlake out in the USA, which as I can see you grinning there. It’s not me. I’m the guy who’s got tattoos and beard and ear piercings versus this very high-calibre alpha male. Very different. Kind of person. And after that time I went. It was great, it was great and I saw the world. I have wonderful experiences. I grew up phenomenal team, but it was kind of my golden handcuffs in a way. And I I took a pause and I went well. I could carry on doing this. I love the team. I worked with. The work has reached a point. I’ve done it. What do I do? And it was the only logical or most fulfilling step was to start something of my own. My own baby, which was of course the Brand Weaver and dude, I’ve not looked back. It’s been a phenomenal year meeting incredible, beautiful, talented people such as you find self and many other people and and it’s just been glorious.

Kirsty van den Bulk
Loving the coffee and I’m just gonna turn around and say we started this live perfectly because you started the conversation. About the scene we were going to talk about branding, but actually we talked about Christmas. So we’ve done this typical thing of cooking the customer in. So I’m gonna turn and say now they’re. Because that’s what you do, right? You’re not just it’s. Not people always think of branding and they think of colours. They think of the logo, the colours and they get, they forget. Actually, grinding is a lot more than that and I wondered if you could wander lean on my soapbox. I thought you could explain it.

Tim Weaver
I I’d be happy to, and I’d love to. Tell me this. Tell me to slow down if I need to, because I get carried away and quite emotional in a in a positive sense about this, but in my mind, branding is not your logo. OK? A logo is this wonderful thing that sits at the end of the process. It’s a visual identity, a brand, one of the most famous phrases is the brand or your brand is what people say about you. When you’re not in the room. And so a brand is you kind of your your language, how you talk, what you say your touch points, it is this full experiential approach ultimately and a logo or a colour is merely an addition to that. It is part of the puzzle. It is by no means the whole puzzle and whole picture. And I think. One of the big reasons I moved away from the agency is that it was obviously very niche, but equally. Sorry I’ve got. Excuse me? Equally, it was very one way. So the the heads of the schools would would they would have a vision, they knew what they wanted to bring to life for their. And but they weren’t really considering other aspects of the market as the Brand Weaver, I I feel it’s so important to work with what I like to call brand alchemy. There are like these three elements that you must combine in any which way in order to create a successful brand. And naturally that is what you are awesome at, but equally important. What your audience is looking for genuinely, why do they come to you? What? Why do they use your service, your product and then the third part? It’s your competition because you don’t want to be. You don’t want to be the same as your competition by any means, but you need to know what they’re saying, what they’re doing. So you stand. Out from them and it’s within that wonderful triangle that brand alchemy that a brand can manifest and it becomes purpose, mission, vision, values, brand messages, touch points, content. It’s just this wonderful bucket. Of lovely, lovely Brand-ey stuff, which doesn’t even have a logo attached to it. Yeah.

Kirsty van den Bulk
Thank you. I love it. Give you a glass of water.

Tim Weaver
Yeah, I was just looking at. My bottle game. Yeah, OK.

Kirsty van den Bulk
Thank you. Because that’s when we we met and we started talking and it’s like, oh, my God, yes, yes, yes. And it’s really important. I think people get so caught up thinking. I’ve gotta get my branding sorted and yet they haven’t fixed the backs. And yeah, I I will say that I do the icing on the cake, but actually I do a lot more than that. I do real in-depth strategy to make sure that what you say is actually what you do and it will communicate and connect with your audience and that you know on a personal note, have you branded the YouTube channel and the first person you saw that was you? Because I wanted to stand up and I looked at all the thumbnails on there and they were all looking, they were good and they’re great and they they get that clickbait. But I needed something that was like me. But softer so that when you come to mind and a friend of mine described it as. I come to your branding and I. Yeah.
Kirsty van den Bulk
The green and of course, for me the most important thing that I’m talking about is controlling your breath, and that’s exactly what I wanted to do, and that’s why I love working with you. You know, I really gotta say it. I love it because that’s where the symbiosis really comes in, and it ends.
Tim Weaver
You’re a deep breath and I’m a rocket up the bum. Yeah.

Kirsty van den Bulk
No, I’m the Tasmanian devil. Surely everyone knows how fast I am.

Tim Weaver
I’m an awful shock factor, like, oh, I didn’t see that coming kind of thing and now? I’m sky high.

Kirsty van den Bulk
I would go with that. Yeah, definitely. You are definitely and and that’s what I. Really love about it is you’ve got this. We stroll. Brand identity. Mine’s a little bit softer. The the key message is and the strap lines and everything that we talk about is absolutely aligned and that’s where I think. It’s it’s really powerful, but. And that’s about work, love about work.

Tim Weaver
Oh, go on. I like it.

Kirsty van den Bulk
I really like. It but I want to talk about Tim, the person, you know, a agency in backing share, even going about a year. You’re you’re rocking it. That’s one of my friends. Works with you as well. So. You left the agency where before the agency were. You. What were you doing?

Tim Weaver
OK, so I I’ve always been a creative little monkey, you know, since since I had hair, which I don’t know. Hence I wear thecap and that becomes part of the brand. So since I was a young boy, I loved sketching, doodling. My mum was very proud when I won the first ever. Kind. Kind of sidewalk painting competition in a local town. It was a rabbit. It wasn’t that great. But you know, mother’s love goes deep. So. That’s wonderful. And then I got into music. I’m an extremely passionate musician. I love drumming. I’ve drummed for 25 years now and so. I I joined bands, I played drums for metal bands, I toured Europe, we released CD’s and albums. There’s one that’s actually just been released on Spotify so people can check that out if they wanna give me a shout. Later on and then being in a band, it was like the The Passion for creativity and art was amplified because not only do you create music, but you need merchandise, you need logos, you need a poster, you you need a a website or a MySpace page or whatever it was at that particular time. And I was like. Great. Let’s give it a go. And so you know, I’ve I’ve told many people that my career started because I managed to pirate Photoshop when I was like, 16 years old. Don’t come at me, Adobe. I pay my licence now I’m. A good boy. I promise. But you know, things like just. Playing and learning with that. And then went ohh OK, so maybe I need a proper education. So University studied multimedia and all that and during that time and I’ve talked about it before, the most valuable thing that I did was I paired my university studies with a junior design role at an agency. So I did 3 days at uni. Two days at the agency, which was phenomenal because it kind of skyrocketed my experience in terms of branding and. Mine. And then left University was still doing the band stuff as well, but obviously got into an agency and worked my way up from that point on. You know, junior design, mid senior creative director jumped through a couple of agencies to to make what I am now, which is the wonderful bearded boy who likes to create beautiful things that stand out. But you know, just to kind of circle back on on the job thing and what you’re saying about, we have the symbiosis because I don’t want to leave. It is one of the really important things is the baseline is authenticity. You know, neither of us are here pretending to be something that we’re not. I mean, in many cases, we might have turned up to 11. A certain aspect of our personality. But it is authenticity, so I genuinely am like this on camera and off, you know, the the saying for yourself, right. You’re just an awesome chill calm, you know, woman with a good Tasmanian. Better you and I think that’s really, really important with the brand. It’s authenticity because people hate being sold to. They hate being marketed to, you know, the the cheesy car salesman. It just makes everyone feel all icky. And so that is what I think is a really valuable connecting thread between you and I as well. So yeah. But let’s come back again.

Kirsty van den Bulk
No, but I think that’s really, really true. I think there’s a lot of people out there that think you have to sell and, and I don’t think and I’m going to say Steven Taylor here and he, you know, having coffee one day. So he runs Foster Engineering and Fire Security Engineering, there’s there’s. A lot of. It’s a great company and we were talking and he one day he just said to me for my old job hammer he went. You’ve never sold anything to me and he at this point he was one of my most important. Customers and I was like ohh. You know what I think you’re right. Because I’ve always wanted to solve the problem. I’ve never wanted to sell anything, and yet I worked for many years in sales because for me it was about and I we we always talk about the sales and marketing, but it’s two of these. But so much of our life is spent with one of them covered. Yeah. And I talked about this with and a couple weeks ago about active listening. And here, as I’m listening to you now, I’m not looking at you. I’m listening to hear what you’re saying and you’re facility. So I can actually have. A conversation with you. Rather than having my own agenda, and I think that’s how what we. Both and how? We both approach with our customers. It’s not our agenda, it’s about the customer’s problem.

Tim Weaver
Massively I I couldn’t agree more. I mean, and this is like I said, it comes back to that triangle of of branding like you have to listen and and you’re gonna do a job like you or I do. You’re merely A conduit. You have to like invoke and and just be a big old sponge, you know, for everything that you’re being told. And if you’re there sat with an ego going. Oh, I already know the answer. That’s fine. Glue smashed it. See you later. Here’s my check. It’s not gonna work like you’ve genuinely gotta sit there and absorb. So you can do something really powerful with it.

Kirsty van den Bulk
So you’ve talked. About the crew. You talked about music. You talked about where you’ve been and how you’ve gotten and where you are today. Have there been many and there will be a hard moments where you’ve gone haha. Or you’ve had that moment where you’ve gone ohh.

Tim Weaver
To to take off the ohh situation like. I’m going to be brutally. Honest as the brand Weaver, there hasn’t been a head in hands or moment. And I think there are. There are a couple of reasons for that, but equally, I know that there will be one on the on the horizon, something will come and almost knowing that something will happen has made me comfortable with that or at least I I feel comfortable with that. You never know it might happen and I’ll be like Kirsty, it’s happened. It’s all gone horribly wrong. Saved me. But until that point, I’m feeling pretty calm and chill about. The but on the positive side, the AHA moment I recorded a video about this the other day that I think going into the brand Weaver I I did as much preparation as possible. Obviously I’d learned so much on my journey leading up to that, had phenomenal mentors that I found online, met incredible people. You were willing to help Coach and provide advice, but you’re still only ever gonna be like I don’t know, 70% towards having a a complete package until you’re kind of out there and doing what you hope to do. Do and then it was those moments where people start to go. Ohh, that’s interesting. Or or I’ve never. Heard someone say something like that before or or that’s an interesting all. I’ve not seen it like that before. The the AHA moment start to drop where I’m going, right? Cool. These are things that I I can start to take. And maybe put that a little bit more emphasis on that piece or really drive those things through. And equally just. Coming back to authenticity and the power of brand, it is very much your vibe, attracts your tribe and and it has worked for the brand. Weaver and I genuinely think it’s been a phenomenal thing. As I say, I’m sat here loving metal music, loving my BBQ, covered in tattoos, you know, used to enjoy. Drink and who do I work with now? Metal bands leading UK BBQ enthusiasts tattoo products. You know breweries it’s it’s just phenomenal and there was no direct intent to go out there and work with these people, but magically they they they get pulled to you. Will you get pulled to them?

Kirsty van den Bulk
And I think that’s absolutely right. It it there was the rebrand I did a year and a half ago and up to that point I just wasn’t communicating properly. I was and it was all there, but it was very corporate and I and all you know, but that’s because. I’ve been in the corporate world. And that was quite normal. And then somebody? Trust me, Tina. And then. What are you doing? And I was the question. So she did what I did to my clients and. It was like ohh that really. Hurts. And she went. You did this. To your clients. So I’m. Not gonna stop. And I remember thinking this actually it’s quite paint. Sometimes it’s a painful process because you’ve got to drop some of the stuff that you really truly believe and. When you work with Someone Like You. You know that that, that, that, dropping, that sloth thing, you know that getting rid of it is really important. So thank you for sharing that. You got another question. Of course I have. Who’s inspired you along the. Hi.

Tim Weaver
So many people they they’re I talked about online mentors. They’re are phenomenal people. And I think actually COVID has this has been one plus side of COVID that everyone has been so very forthcoming with providing value online through that time and that was the the transitional period as as they start to build up the brand. The. So they’re incredible people online, like a gentleman called Mike Jander, who used to run an agency, now runs the Jander Academy, just providing so much value to agency owners cause he’s tread the boards and did massive things you’ve got made by James, who’s a phenomenal brand designer, very open, very transparent about pricing. Models. That there are so many. People like, obviously as soon as you get put on the on the spot and go name some. People you go, no. I’ve forgotten them all, but I think from online there’s some a massive source of people, but equally the networking side of things you you bump into people who will just give you little Nuggets and you don’t necessarily know. How valuable those little nuggets are until you’ve taken them away and pondered on them a little bit as well. So sitting down or a little connection or chatting about a particular problem just from other business owners are hugely inspiration. If you then get on to a deeper level, you know you’ve got kind of the the maternal and paternal inspirations where my dad was self-employed, he always was. He always grafted and I think that on on a base level has kind of gone well. Did that that, that’s fine. You do that, you know. You I I’m I’m inspired by that from what he’s gifted. I suppose so, yeah. A whole host online you. Know real people. Obviously, real people are online as well. They’re digital, like presences, physical presences and family.

Kirsty van den Bulk
So. Is it a year you’ve been going?

Tim Weaver
I so it will be. So I started the brand with a part time in January. So this is, yeah, so this is the the the story I when I was transitioning out of the agency as Creative Director, I had a six month notice period.

Tim Weaver
Which is it’s very long notice period, but equally it just shows how very important I am that people don’t get rid of me that easily. But the owner, director, Mr Simon notes, was a phenomenal guy and and equally talked about mentors. He’s someone who coached me for many, many years and gave me a lot of skills that I now bring to the table. How’s the brand? So we came to the agreement that I would work full time for three months and then stretch out that final three months as part time. So I would then mentor and coach my one of my seniors into the creative Director role, which is doing incredibly well out now. He’s still there. So I mean, there’s only been a year, so I’m glad he’s still there. Otherwise we would have really done a terrible job. And then, yeah, so as of January, I started to transition out two days for Brand Weaver, then three days and then full-time brand Weaver. And here we are coming to the end of December.

Kirsty van den Bulk
So what’s your biggest thing? The biggest thing? You’ve ever learned, or you’ve been your biggest challenge in. Your first year.

Tim Weaver
There, there’s, there’s a lot so. Ohh. OK, where do you start? The the first one? Like I said, I’m so, so happy that I’ve tested and proved that your vibe attracts your tribe for me. I think that has been incredibly powerful. Another one is. Just knowing you don’t know everything and you do not have everything knuckled down, but I can imagine other people or some people might go into the industry, into the branding world or design or anything visual or anything that has some kind of an identity and they’ve got an ego. It’s like no, I know how to do this. They’ve got a big lofty scarf and they kind of make grunting noises and. You know, it’s the kind of archetypal creative director who just goes, but you can’t do that, right? You have to go. I’m here to learn. I’m here to be a sponge. I’m here to be educated by people who have done this. So you have to remain. I think communication has been such an essential part of where I’ve got to so far and not having those head in hands moments, you know, to the point of over communicating with everyone that I work with being so very organised. Yeah, I’ve been told I’m, you know, the brand rewritten a Unicorn in that respect because we’re an organised. That, you know, organise designer kind of thing, which you don’t normally get. So I’m told. I’m sure there’s many of you out there if you’re there. If you’re listening, I don’t mean to offend. So I think some of those are some of the the key things that I’ve gone, right, OK, this is good. Ohh. And the other one marketing, that’s that’s weird, right? Like you. You go out there going right. You have to mark it yourself. You have to sell your agency. Right. OK. How do we do that? Well, you got cold calling you’ve got. Form leads. You’ve got social ads or you’ve gotta create content every two seconds. You’ve gotta do long form. You’ve gotta do short form content. You have to have lead magnets. You have to do face to face networking. You need a networking strategy. I’m going blindly right and. We do it all brand we have. As at all, but we’re not sat here going with that one thing worked really, really well. We can double down on that because you get like little threads from each of them. And so that that kind of really frustrates me when I see people online going week gained 10,000 followers and just under two weeks by doing this one simple thing. And I’m like coffee, did you? Absolutely.

Kirsty van den Bulk
So thank you for that one. Absolutely. And. And you’re right. I love that last bit because I think about I put post up this week where I have got 70 plus videos which have tips and tricks on YouTube. There are 72 about more than that. It’s like 98 nearly 100. Then there’s 72 now episodes. Otherwise, why there are 6 lead magnets? There’s three online courses coming. There are 17 blogs there, then all the content on social media. And someone said to me why if you do it all and it’s like. Because I get things from everyone and the last video I put out was all about the impression because a lot of my clients don’t even like or comment. They then pick up the phone and go at the following year. Two years? Yeah. And it’s it. Then you get these people who shout down the land. You can we can convert you. You can just. We’re selling you this course. But my course doesn’t do this. We’re gonna sell you this course and you are going to then be a success. You’re gonna be a millionaire overnight. I could do the points. Do like that. And you’re like, yeah.

Tim Weaver
I’m sorry. Where do I sign?

Kirsty van den Bulk
Yeah, it’s like, no, that’s total poppy something. And then I say that. It’s just twaddle. And it is. It’s those marketing marketeers that drive me nuts. So, no, that’s not our marketing work. That’s works or not, from my point of view, I don’t think for yours.

Tim Weaver
Either does it. No. It’s it’s about being like you say. It’s top of mind. Isn’t it really? And there’s the statistic that 90% of your audience are not in the position to work with any you know with you when you’re putting that content. But rightly say, like you say, you do not know who’s been watching you for a year for two years, and finally that moment has come along where. They’ve gone ohh of. Course now is time. I’ve really wanted to work with Kirsty for a long time and wanted to work with the brand women for a long time and guys it now has the opportunity and you’ve just gotta be. There gotta continue to give value, not. In a way that you go well. And by me putting this out there, I’m immediately gonna. Get something back. I I actually really enjoy it now where I’ve got friends and people that go. Ohh hey banditos. Which is kind of what. How I like start my videos when I start to. Looking and they’re going. Oh, it’s phenomenal. It’s. It’s awesome to see there. I’ve got some friends who go. Dude, I’m. Fed up with it? Leave it out. It’s. Like, well, don’t follow the brand. You follow my. Personal account which? Is far more boring, but it’s nice. It’s great because you know that brand piece is working. The personal brand is and the whole agency is coming to life.

Kirsty van den Bulk
Yeah. Launching this was the craziest look through. That’s bad word. Bad is the word there. So I’m trying to be really good at not using negative words, so we all use them. So it was off the wall for me to launch a podcast because I always said. I wouldn’t. And yeah, it’s. And the best decisions I have made and the amount of people who watch this, and then we’ll I’ll I’ll go somewhere and they’ll love your podcast, but I’m not even aware that they’ve actually genuinely watched it because they haven’t liked it because they don’t want to be seen. And this is what people forget. You’re putting out the content. It’s 15 months minimum to turn social media. But the people who really like what you do don’t necessarily want to be seen themselves, and so they’re not gonna like, they’re not gonna cook because they where you were two years ago where they didn’t like you. You didn’t like. Well, I hated social media 2-3 years ago. I certainly don’t think I’d do the content I do now. In fact, I can remember saying to him. Your social media. And then three months later, I launched. The business I launched on social media and. She went. I thought you were coming off it.

Tim Weaver
The way to look at it, or one like an analogy, is if you think about a classroom setting and the teacher at the front is a piece of content. Be a blog, a podcast, a piece of Instagram content or photo video, whatever it might be. You then have a classroom of, say, 30 kids. Yeah, 30. Three or four of them might raise their hand. They might interact with that teacher. Then you’ve got another. I don’t know, 15 of them, this one trying to do quick maths. It could go horribly wrong. Help me, Kirsty. If you’ve got a calculator. 15 of them are just there, quietly listening and taking it on board. And then the remaining ones are the ones who genuinely aren’t interested in not listening. So actually, there’s that middle gap in the classroom. Who are there? Intently listening, noting it down. But they’re not interacting with the teacher much. Like you say, your audience may not be interacting with your content. It doesn’t mean they’re not listening.
Kirsty van den Bulk
Brilliant. So this is where the tables turn and you can. I’ve been having you in the hot seat for 27 1/2 minutes and you get to turn around and ask me a question. So fill your boots and I will do my best to answer.

Tim Weaver
OK, so my little firecracker. Here we go. I I I cause I’ve I’ve got obviously my own strong feelings about what people say and I go. I disagree with that. I think it can be done other ways, but is there a like a a common piece of advice in the industry. That in in our industry that you disagree with and and and why you know something, people go well. That’s gospel. It’s gotta be done. But. You’re like, no, that’s not the way.

Kirsty van den Bulk
So let’s talk about video marketing. OK, because everyone says you’ve got to go on camera and I’m going to tell you now you don’t. There are thousands of different ways of making content in. At AI, LinkedIn wrote a video for a A A blog, a couple of last week, and it’s about a it’s written by AI and it was written about video marketing and I got angry and I had to really, really pull back my response. You do not need to spend a fortune on video marketing. You will spend if you wanna work with the video for a minimum of 500. Today, if you work with someone like me on top, that’s gonna create it and direct it. You’re looking at between 500 and 750 on top. So you’re looking if you want to really build a proper video marketing campaign that is professional and shiny and out there, you’re you’re looking at a budget between 1250 and 1500, maybe 2 a day depending. If you’re bringing. Yes. But 90% of people can create video content for free, but without even captioning it they can transcript. It you can put. It out on social media blog. You can do all of this stuff for free and it be done on your mobile phone and you don’t have to ever think it. And you certainly don’t need to lose. Learn the script and it is a bug. Pair of mine where people go out there and tell everybody you’ve got. To do it this. Way and I’m going to tell you now that little wheels didn’t and they are not seen on camera and yet they’re TikTok is monetized so well done guys love working with you, really proud of what you’ve done so. That’s above there is where people jump on and tell you how to do camera, how to go and speak and do video marketing and get it completely. I can’t swear get it completely wrong and my favourite bit is this is where we’re. Going I’m going to shut down the camera lens. And you and it really, really, as soon as I see it, I just. Get annoyed, so please please also the other thing with video marketing. Is know your audience. If you’re not speaking and you’re not saying to America, don’t. Video think about who you are actually speaking to, thinking about who’s going to work with you, really put yourself in your audience shoes, but start by thinking about the end game, what you’ve thumbnail terms can be, what your type is going to be, and work backwards. And now I’m not going to press that video on the YouTube because you asked me. The question that a video. This morning.

Tim Weaver
Ohh, I’m sorry.

Kirsty van den Bulk
No, don’t. This is that’s it’s really important to me the this. It will set up because I got so many away I bought in the video market inside the business because I got so annoyed at people being told how to do it, but actually nobody really listened to somebody who is camera shy, so when he doesn’t want to go on camera, you don’t have to be seen. There are other ways and get in touch because I will help you, but without the plug. But it’s really, really. Yes, that is my bug. There is somebody. Who tells you how you have to do the? Because there’s no such, OK, thing as Patty.

Tim Weaver
Also, kind of like you’re saying about the the professional shot videos, actually, if they’re done overly professional then that is also a put off for some audience members, right as well. You know, we talk about authenticity and you look at some of the videos with the highest engagement and that content, that engagement and it’s just someone openly and honestly talking down the camera at you versus this highly polished you know piece that they they spent thousands on it. It’s all about the market and what you’re aiming to do.

Kirsty van den Bulk
I suppose. Well, I think it’s it’s important. I mean, if you think about Instagram, you think about the sponsored adverts that comes through, you’re going through your feed, you see sponsored. How many times do you like that? Because I now know if I’d like something that’s sponsored. I will. Unlike it, I’d deliver if I clicked something. Oh, that’s it. And then I realised it’s. I actually like it because I I want I I’m a big thing about organic marketing and unless it’s really good and it’s really rocking it and it really. I don’t like it because I know that they’ve got huge amounts of budget and actually social media, and I really and I know the big brands have to come on to it and. Really do. But this is where the little. Guys can compete, so get off it.
Tim Weaver
It’s just easy for. These guys, when they take it.

Kirsty van den Bulk
Sorry.

Tim Weaver
It’s not that easy. I’m like, like you said, you’re a big fan of the organic stuff, but the, you know, the the algorithms out there to to fight against you, you’ve you’ve really gotta keep at it. Yeah, as you’re saying, it’s that consistency and not being defeated by the idea that you’ve only got a couple of comments or a few likes on it because. The right people are seeing. It, and that’s the important thing. I think it’s the case of going, you know, who would you prefer like a an audience of 1,000,000. But you know, five of them are listening or an audience of 500, but they’re waiting on every word that you say like, that’s the genuine people that you want to yeah, talk to and. Though you’re trying right and those are the people you wanna work with. Those are the people you’re gonna get the warm and fuzzies about. So stick with those. Cool. Yeah, you don’t need everyone else.

Kirsty van den Bulk
On that note. On that wonderful piece of advice, I’m gonna end it. Because that is exactly. What I think we both believe 100.

Tim Weaver
Percent my job boom.