The Wise Why

Josh Cox
It is, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I often don’t say it because the the most common reaction I get is, you know, you do weight lifting because looking at me, I’m not, you know, I’m not a big person. I’m not. I mean, I used to be heavier to be. I used to be bulky. I used to be more, you know, more muscly. But I mean certainly at the minute I’m just normal. Sort of. You know, thin and and everything. So I always get that reaction. So it’s something that. I I mean I I guess it’s probably a a hint of modesty as well that I, you know, I I don’t like to. I don’t I I guess I don’t shout and and rant and rave about about myself probably as much as I should do as a business owner but but yeah it is true.

Kirsty van den Bulk
Yeah. So what I love. About you and and gonna pick up on this. Not shouting and and going out there is you’re not a big. I mean you’re coming on a live stream on LinkedIn. This isn’t normal for you. You don’t do really do social media.

Josh Cox
No, no, I mean I, I I put out a a bit of an awkward LinkedIn post last night just to say, you know, join me, catch me on the, you know, on on the wise why but yeah or and it and it I think it’s probably quite bizarre because I work in a very digital world. You know being a web developer. Solely working within the you know with within the Internet, but I I think just social media it it’s never really had my attraction to be fair and I. Personally I I’ve I’ve. I’ve found it more harm than good. I I know it does a lot of great things, but there’s there’s also been a personal side too. I know that. I’ve I, you know, messing up. I I’ve you know, there’s no times I’ve spent. You know I’ve I’ve quite easily lost an hour. Just mindlessly kind of scrolling. And so that’s why I I kind of made a decision to cut it out of my life. Essentially, I I still have a LinkedIn presence obviously to connect and and you know when I go networking to make those connections and certainly for the messaging features, but I try not to. Sort of do so much of the scrolling and posting as it it’s more of a personal preference, but yes, and I do understand the power of it but.

Kirsty van den Bulk
See, I love that because I told all my clients that you and This is why I asked. John, if your website I’ve. Got a big thing about your website is like your department store with the way that people purchase today, social media is just a door that people. Walk through so it’s no different to having your print. It’s no different to go out networking or going to an event and having a stand. It’s a door so I always like it. Back to my days in Harrods or Selfridges where you have the department you want to go. To and that’s signposted from the minute you walk in the door. And that’s actually your website. And I’d love us to explore this a little bit. Is I really feel that your website is the most important aspect of your business? It is your department store. It should be user friendly. It should be optimised for mobile first. This is me talking and I’m just somebody who advises people on how to do them and then like I go, yeah, I don’t do that. I’ll get you Josh. I’ll get you watch your works. I’ll get you one of my. Great guys cause I’m not that person. So can you talk to me a little bit about how a website should feel and look?

Josh Cox
Absolutely. And you’re you’re right in in everything that you’re saying. I mean, for instance, when a client comes to us and says they want a website, some of the the, the first key questions that we always ask them back is is is actually do you have a brand in place because that that’s what your website should to look and feel like it should embody your brand, your brand is your initial. Community it’s not your it’s your communication to the world. It should sum up your values your USPS. Your demographic of what you want to, you know, target and and that’s ultimately what we would run across the whole website from everything from making sure that the logo is on point, the assets that we use are are fitting of your brand, the, the fonts, the colours, even the overall messaging and perhaps the user journey as well that it would all just stem from that that initial. Landing. So that’s something that we we just really need to make sure that clients have got right, you know in their head before we take their website because they said it just plays such a a big foundation into how their website would look. But yeah, and and and you’re absolutely right with regards to a you know a website being a a platform essentially, I mean it used to be you know you know 50 years ago that you’d walk down the High Street and that’s how you would find your local businesses and it it could be a pet store or hairdressers or or or whatever it is. And there are lots of different sales. Comes out there as you as you spoke about, you know you go networking and social media and Google ads are there’s so many out there but ultimately in in a lot of the cases you’re you’re driving people to your website to almost. Understand what it is that you do, because often if you’re in a networking event, maybe you can’t explain fully what you do in in 30 seconds in 20 seconds in a minute, and that’s where people want to actually understand a little bit more about who you are, what you do, and see if you’re the right fit cause I think we as humans, certainly with the Internet at our fingertips, we like to do our own research. We like to think that. We know everything and and you know it. It, it’s that sort of mentality and and we’re. Not far wrong. You know, it’s that sort of self justification of of I. Want to know what I’m getting into? And obviously you speak to an expert because that’s what you’re going for, but you need to make sure that you’re getting the right expert. So that’s where that research comes in. I think to of looking at someone’s website, understand what they do visiting their blog, checking out their their YouTube channel and getting a feel before you engage in working with them.

Kirsty van den Bulk
Thank you. Because that’s exactly well, that’s why I invited you on the show, cause that that coffee was both were sitting. And going, Oh my God, we’re on the same page. Wow, so. You know, it’s it’s really cute and I do. I shop like that. So my recent purchase. Was a frying pan. Now we talk about loyalty here. So your website also builds that loyalty. I know it’s gonna sound silly referring it to your phone. Plan but. I had to buy a new frying pan now. Turns out the frying pan that we had wasn’t gonna work any longer. It was 22 years old, but we didn’t realise. I didn’t realise because it came with my husband. So then I did all the research and actually it. Was reading. I must have read. All the best frying pan guys for 2023. I must have been. I went to three different company websites. The usability of the site that I actually went to was what I went. I bought it from, but I did buy it from a big online company because the online company was cheaper than the the company website. But I read and did a lot of research and I think it’s important. I even did some social media to check what people were saying for the reviews and that’s what I kind of say to people. Don’t put all your eggs in social media, that do put an awful lot of focus on your website because it’s it’s key for me.

Josh Cox
Yeah, absolutely. And and although yeah, you know, you mentioned the frying pan not being a a huge, huge sort of item, but but to last 22 years, there’s that, that’s that’s a hell of a threat to be fair. So it’s something that you would want to put a lot of a lot of emphasis on getting it right because ultimately maybe you want the next one to last 22 years, you know. I I can completely understand.

Kirsty van den Bulk
Look, that’s. That’s the same with your website and this is what people think. They go. All right. I’m launching a business and I and I, the again I asked John, you spend all your time launching business you spend your time making your socials look great and then somebody comes to a website that isn’t necessarily fit for purpose. And then your customer bounces. Now I know your websites are. Absolutely beautiful. They are. They are stunning. So how long have you been doing WordPress?

Josh Cox
So I started pristine in 2016. There was, it was officially when I got my first paid client under the under the brand. So but before that I was dabbling in WordPress as a bit of a freelance couple of my own sort of side hustles. You call them now, but small businesses at the time. So I I mean officially since 2016 as I set out my but, but it’s probably about two or three years before that where I was freelancing for an agency, a local agency. And so just making some websites personally and for some family and friends. So I guess, I mean it’s probably close to 10 years of. WordPress but. Yeah. It’s just. Yeah, I I think that lot there are lots of CMS’s out there and lots of website tools, lots of come and gone. WordPress has been around since 2003. It’s got a huge huge contributor base. It’s really well optimised. It’s got a lovely interface. Adding content and it sometimes gets a lot of bad rap about not being secure, not being, you know, fit for purpose for a lot of businesses. And and that’s true to some degree. It doesn’t. It’s not a one-size-fits-all for the most part I think and then a lot of small businesses it does suit. And and the security aspects are literally just because WordPress is perhaps managed poorly. For instance, you know plug-in and theme updates aren’t applied. Plugging in themes aren’t properly vetted before they’re added to your website and and and often the one the one of the biggest reasons of, say, a breach, a a hack that we would see is just with regards to user error. So far as you know, someone using the same password for multiple websites, their website gets found in a data breach. And with Facebook just you know, or eBay, as they’ve all had big data breaches and then suddenly your credentials are on the web. I mean now we do employ tactics to mitigate that, such as two FA, but they’re they’re just some common reasons of you know as we we love WordPress as a brilliant platform, but sometimes it does get a bit of a bad rap.

Kirsty van den Bulk
And and I think that’s important. So I’ve got plugins in my on the back of my website that and and they’ve got they keep my site secure. I have a maintenance package for the website and these are the. Things that people don’t. That, that and and I was one of them. And I think this is you know I I launched the company on one of those big you know build your own websites and I got it wrong. I’m gonna absolutely freely admit I got the complete I caught my website wrong which is why I now I’m really passionate about them because you people were that I remember. Looking at the back end, analytics and people were visiting the site, but they were bouncing and they weren’t searching. They weren’t scrolling and they weren’t reading the content. And I also had too much information on my website, so it was just this. Whole border of words coming at people because I was trying to sell everything at the same time and everything was just ohh. It was so big and clumsy and slow. And then I discovered WordPress and I got the help and I streamlined it and the plugins, even the SEO plugin. Honestly people I’ve if you’re if you’re if you are sitting there frustrated with your website. Get in touch with Josh because you’re gonna get something that’s slick. It’s gonna be light, and it’s going to give that look. I’m. I’m. Yeah, I’m poked. I’m. I’m pushing. You alright? I’m gonna stop that. Cause this is not a sales platform. Well, yeah, So what I’d really love to know is. Your journey from weightlifting to WordPress. How did that happen?

Josh Cox
So I mean to take you back a go into huge detail, but I mean I started doing weightlifting back in school in, in secondary school. I was really fortunate the the the school that I went to in in Didcot. Either it was a really high class Olympic Weightlifting centre lottery funded, it was amazing, the the the coach, there was fantastic. It got voted, best coach of the Year for Britain back in around for the 2012. Absolutely a great team as well. So and and and it really just stemmed from there. That’s how I got into weightlifting part of the school I found. I really enjoyed it. It’s not a sport for for everyone there. There’s a lot of repetitiveness in it because you’re doing essentially the the variations, but the same 2 left over and over the ****** and the clean and jerk. But there’s something so nice about it that the the repetitiveness is nice and the hard work is nice, especially when it pays off any sort of marathon runner might tell you that when you finish a marathon, you feel amazing. It’s the same as when you finish a competition or or whatever it is. And and and I really did that to my early 20s and yeah, I was part of the GV. Squad. Certainly in my earlier years from about 14 to 16, I competed internationally a couple of times and there was this Grand Prix event in Austria where I did win gold. It’s quite. It’s quite nice. Yeah. So, yeah, I I I really enjoyed it. I did a bit of coaching the, the, the sad thing about weightlifting though is that it it’s not a popular sport. So it it it’s not something that you can do as a career that will you know that will pay the bills and at the time. I was. I was sort of getting a little bit of an entrepreneurial itch. I start, I did an apprenticeship and stuff, but in the evenings and the weekends, I started a T-shirt printing business. I started a small magazine. These little tiny bits and pieces. But the one thing that I really liked about starting these. Businesses was building the website of it. You know, I spend a lot of time just playing around with the website, probably more than I, you know, should have, you know, been selling the product or whatever it is. So that really led into the passion and then that’s where I did some courses, took some exams and then started reaching out to some local. Since he’s some freelance work and and just one thing led to another and that’s where I part ways with the the freelancer that we had a few differences of opinion and just decided that’s it. I’m going to start up on my own and. Away we go. So that yeah, would have been back in 2016.

Kirsty van den Bulk
I I love it. It’s it’s. I love the fact that you had a couple of things that you did before and then you found your way because businesses evolve, we as business owners evolve, we as career people actually evolve. You know, I can see we’ve got a comment from Haley and you look at Halley’s life and and that’s evolved and it’s. I love the fact that we we’re not we as as Catherine Warren. I would say we’re wonky careers or we pivot, but it’s those things that make us who we are. So thank you for sharing. Your journey so. I want to ask. You about inspiration and who’s inspired you along the way?

Josh Cox
A great question. So I mean it goes without saying, you know, people have been a huge supporter of, you know, my partner and much with many businesses your your, your spouse, your partner. If you’ve got one there is is always a huge inspiration. Outside of that I there there there are two people it goes about saying I have to mention. Mike Foster from the entrepreneurs mentor. He’s been a huge helper, his mentoree, and I think being a solo preneur, which I was for a lot of the time. I’ve had an employee and bits and pieces, but but largely being a solopreneur it’s. It’s something you don’t realise how important it is to have that conversation with someone, to step out of your business and and and just have a a top down look at and and a bit of a plan of to see on the horizon what what’s coming up and how you want to shape that journey is is hugely invaluable. And Mike’s one of these people where he, you know he he’s not a yes person, he’s he’s not afraid to tell you. His thoughts and challenge you on your own ideas on your own thinking and. You know there there’s been times where you know he’s he’s had to sit down and say, actually, you know what, what you’re suggesting isn’t the right way forward from my perspective. And then show me, you know, his his thinking and and and how he got there. But certainly I think just it can be a bit of a lonely place sometimes being a a sole business owner, owner operator whatever you want to call them but having that. You know, having Mike there as a, as a mentor has been hugely valuable. The other person I like to give a bit of a a mention to is is Ken Burness. We we started working together. He’s from Cogent method an IT consultancy firm and we started working together probably for about a year or so now and we Co work once once a fortnight on a Thursday because we share a few clients and it’s really nice to have a collaborate. Mission. But but Ken’ichi Ole career has been sort of in systems analysis, systems engineering. He’s been an IT professor at reading, so he comes of a whole wealth of of knowledge which I feel like I’ve learned quite a lot from and that’s sort of. I mean I I I used to do to some degree before about actually understanding the business processes, understanding the requirements. And not just jumping into technology. It’s something I really preach nowadays, but but I think Ken has is he really takes that to the next level and he really ensures that the right. The the right solution, no matter what that is, regardless of the technology, is put forward to the client, so you can be sure you know that that reasonable doubt has been excluded that this is the the best way forward. You know that it is fit for purpose, but yeah, so they’re they’re they’re two people that I think have been some huge help and inspiration. On my journey and and I continue to work with.

Kirsty van den Bulk
That’s brilliant. And Mike is actually coming on the show in a couple of weeks because I’ve seen him. I’ve I’ve not had the pleasure of working with Mike yet. I’ve been in a I’ve just been. It sounds really bad. I’ve been really busy, which is wonderful, but there is that balance of getting that mentoring and and I was very lucky because I joined when I first. You know, two years ago when I first launched and I was feeding that loneliness and feeling like I don’t quite know how to scale the business and and how to do it. You know, I don’t want to be body shopping. I don’t you can’t make a business just body shopping because you you can only manage a certain amount of work and then you’ve got. My own work, so I was trying to find a way to do it and I was lucky. I joined Oxley and Paul Holmes, one of my earliest guests, gave me really, really solid advice and that advice was and then I don’t know if Mights ever done this to you, but it was. How are you going to make your first 1000 lbs? How are you going to get then get your first. 1000 LB day and I remember saying to him £1000 a day you’re joking and he went no. If you’re a business, you’ve gotta think about the bottom before you think about your salary. You’ve gotta think about the costs of running your business now. How much does it cost for you to pay staff? How much are you gonna pay your staff and work it back from there? Remember the tax? Remember all the other bits? Remember the cost. And I went, Oh my goodness. I hadn’t even thought about that. And it was that light bulb moment where Paul went from the 1000 lbs to 1000 to 10,000 LB day. And this is how you scared the business. And I remember just going. Apart from walking away going, I don’t even know how to start it. Now I look back two years later and I. Go. That was really good advice have. You ever received anything like a nugget of that like that? That’s totally changed the way you think.

Josh Cox
Yeah, I thought. I just like to build on what you say and I I think the reason why mentors, business coaches, you know, there’s lots of different names I suppose. But but the reason why I think they’re they’re so useful is because they they don’t teach you this sort of stuff in schools. You know, I I didn’t do business at at, say, a level where it was an option. But even from what I understand, that’s more. Focusing on bigger economies, bigger businesses. But this whole idea of of running a small. This a lot of the time in the early stages, you’re kind of fumbling about a little bit. You might have had some experience before, but you’re you’re often fumbling about and learning on the job, but which is a lovely, lovely thing to do. But as you say, there are some pitfalls and there are some really big sort of eye openers. I I I I think probably a really nice thing that I had. Working with with with Mike is is just changing. How the the billing structure at my company worked to just recurring billing? I I always used to do it and I don’t know why, but I always used to run hosting contracts for a year and at the end of the year I’d call up the company and say let you know, do you want to then continue with another year? You know these are the stats. Is the help that we’ve given you blah blah. And and it was taking up so much admin time, but just having those conversations with Mike and understanding, you know, there’s potentially a A lost leader there for clients to say no, we switched it to recurring monthly recurring quarterly recurring yearly. But the whole idea is it’s recurring and we do send things like you know we send. Things like monthly care reports that detail things like analytics, there’s a lot of streamlining in the business there, but it was just that small tweak that freed up a lot of my time. It meant that there’s a lot more predictable, repeatable cash flow in the business that really just it built up quite a nice sort of safety net within the business that I could then be like, OK, well, you know, OK. Project work still does make up a a huge part of the business as you’d expect with the web development agency. But having the the the recurring income coming from the maintenance and the hosting work that we do is is just such a nice place to be. So is that kind of that switch there? It’s just a small thing, but you’re right, sometimes it’s small things like that that can make big impacts and it’s. Just someone just suggesting oh. Why do you do it like that? Why don’t? You do it like this and yeah. Sometimes I just take eye opening.

Kirsty van den Bulk
Yeah, moment. It is like recurring income because you know, I’m very lucky that my customers come back to me. So they come to me for one. Yeah, it could be public speaking. It could be social media management, it could be content marketing strategy, whatever. The the way they’ve come in, it could be video marketing actually, because I do a lot of. That so I. Work with other videographers, so. I’m not a videographer. I’m a coach. I. Can edit it. But you’re far better to use a videographer, so there’s. I’ve got that going on. But the recurring income is. How do you do that? And yes, my customers come back. Yes, they want more video campaigns, and one of those things, but actually I’m. I’m I’ve finally bitten the bullet and I am in development. I’ve not told anyone I’m in development on an online course, which hopefully now and I’ve got a pronged attack. You know it’s it’s 3 modules and you can buy them all and it’s all gonna come out and I’m working on it. But. It’s not something I thought I would do, but it’s that recurring income which will then allow me to bring in more stuff, so really good bit of advice there, really good.

Josh Cox
It it is, and yeah, it it. It’s often the just the small bits of information that makes such a big difference.

Kirsty van den Bulk
So yeah, awesome. So along the way, there must, I mean, you’ve gone from being a training, learning how all that discipline that you’ve had when you’ve been training. And although it’s repetitive and I think there’s a lovely link here. Between you were talking about and I’m. I’ve never weight lifted. But you were talk about certain moves with weightlifting. That repetitive nature, that also discipline that you’ve got, that must have some way connected you to WordPress because it’s gotta be discipline. It’s got to be some kind of routine.

Josh Cox
Yeah, I I think probably the the the key takeaway from weightlifting and and and running a business is there’s, there’s, there’s a heck of a lot of hard work that goes into it. It goes into both. To be honest. I mean, if if you’re you’re going to be a, you know, a high performance athlete, there’s there’s a lot of hard work that you’ve got to do to get there. And it’s the same with we’re running a business. I mean. Yeah, WordPress is is, is, is, is absolutely fantastic toys. It’s been iterated over by so many developers out there and and we’re constantly learning and growing and adapting what we think because you’ve got to stay in line with the latest technology. So there’s that sort of similarity there I suppose. But I I think really that what what highlight said is is is hard work and and. And I think once you Mark that as as well as discipline, then yeah, certainly you can, you can put your mind to, to, to, to almost anything I think so.

Kirsty van den Bulk
Yeah. Also, I’m gonna see what Haley has said, cause I’ll. I’ll Hayley. Actually, I’ve gotta call you later because I’m hoping to get in contact. She says a frying pan purchase. I wonder if Rapunzel entangled did. That much with. Search. I love that, comrade and and nice to meet you, Josh. You’re probably too young. Or your your child’s probably too young to have watched tangled yet. But wait for the days of Disney.

Josh Cox
Yeah, she’s. Yeah. She. She’s. She. She. She she. She can’t really. I mean, it’s. And it’s a good thing I suppose. But she can’t really sort of concentrate more than sort of 1015 minutes on a programme. Which. Yeah, we’re we’re not. You know we’re not fussed about at all because it’s nice if you can get down and go play or do whatever But yeah I’m I’m well aware I’ve got some nieces and nephew. You said that, yeah, we’re going to have to bite the bullet and get a Disney Plus subscription. I think, you know, sooner or later.

Kirsty van den Bulk
So did you have any aha moments where you just. Went uh, huh? I love this question. It’s one of my favourites, I think. I probably ask, ask it the most so are hard moments the way you’ve just gone? Nope, this isn’t for me. I’ve I’ve been there and you’ve gone. I’m going to leave this job or. The hard moments can be where you’ve gone. No, I know why I’m doing what I’m doing. Like me, when I sat. Back and went. Ohh yeah, that makes sense. I was an actor. I’ve I was a sales trainer. I’ve worked in China. Ohh, right. Yeah. Now I know why I do what I do.

Josh Cox
Yeah. So. I had a a hard moment. It was a bit sort of forced on me in a way, but it it it it was looking back it was a it was. It was a silver lining of a bad situation, but it was a it was a a great sort of pivoting moment for the business. So as a lot of kind of freelancers do and in small businesses, when you’re transitioning from, say, full time employment or part time employment into a. Business I I had a one big freelancing client. It was Taylor newspapers. They were responsible for a lot of much loved local newspapers like the Oxfordshire Guardian, the basin Type Observer and it’s a really small company, really close knit team. So yeah, really in the early stages I was working. Freelancing effectively for. For probably about half my time, sometimes more, sometimes less. But they were pretty much my sole client, and at the time, yeah, I was bringing in business. I was doing a bit of door knocking and networking and bits and pieces to to try and drive the the website business, but I think I’ve I’ve probably looking back up and and I probably did get stuck in a bit of a rut of kind of relying on that big. Company as they become that, relying on that one client to provide a lot of my income. So it is like almost I had a a paid. Job essentially with them. Well, Fast forward a few months and the business was picking up. I was taking on more work, but not that the sort of the rate that would have sustained going sort of full time with it. And again because I had that that sort of that safety net, there wasn’t any need to. Well anyway, it’s a Friday, it was a Friday for a bank holiday weekend. We all said goodbye, went home and then came in on the Tuesday because of the Bank Holiday Monday. And unfortunately the MD’s brother was in and said that he passed away on Friday the the the owner passed away, which was all of a sudden it was really sad. It was. It was awful. To be fair. It it? Yeah. It it. Yeah. It it kind of. And it meant that the company as well just came sort of a bit crashing down and sometimes small businesses are. There wasn’t much in place to sort of carry it on as a, you know, carry on the, the the business trading. So it was a really sad time because it was just so unexpected, but the but the one silver lining that I I kind of draw from it is that it it meant that that safety net was taken away from me, you know, and that literally meant it was a thing called swim type moment where I had to, you know, it was. Place of choice. You know, kind of go back into a bit of paid employment or or take the business and and and really make a push of it and and and that’s why I decided to do. He said it. Wasn’t that hard moment, but kind of forced on me. And. And yeah, I I just. I just, I just liken it to a a silver lining to be fair is I think probably the only thing that you can draw from it. But yeah, I look back and I think that was probably quite a big pivotal moment on on actually launching the business. Full time.

Kirsty van den Bulk
Thank you for sharing cause when I worked in channel sales, one of the things I I can remember this is working way back in 2013. We the company I was working for at the time we had our partners and he’s gonna love this one but we had our partner channel sales partners and we had the ones which were our top performers and we had the little ones at the bottom and you treat everybody the same and you know that the funnels. Coming up and the smaller customer will get bigger, but one of the top ones went bust over. Now that was not a small amount of income that was coming into the company. That was pretty much the yearly target for one of the sales guys. And I remember. Learning a really hard lesson at that point because his he he he just had. It was like that was my account. You know, I’ve got and now it was the Scrabble of how do you find that? 2,000,000, three million. Whatever the amount a million were was that they were paying to the company for sales at the time. How did you get that? And thankfully the company had this real good structure. And so the people who are at the bottom, we were able to nurture and bring them. Up and spend that little bit of extra time with them and get them to buy more of the product. But actually you’re really right. If you focus on one thing, that’s great all the time, you’ve got it, but you’ve gotta make sure that you’re funnelled and that you’re still nurturing. So that’s where I say to my clients, social media will take 15 months to really generate a lead. And at 7% of your business, but you’re wanting to get in this back to the website, you’ll love this link. This is where we’re trying to get people off your social media and doing to your website and joining up to your mailing list because your own, your website and your own, your mailing list and that’s where you wanna keep looking after them. Now I only send a newsletter out once a. Hotter because actually I find anything more than that is too much. I don’t know if you talk if you’re prepared to talk about that connections. I know it’s not WordPress, but that connection to owning your owning your customer list.

Josh Cox
Yeah, you’re absolutely right. And it’s it it a a little small tip here is that unless there’s a really good reason for it is I often would have advised clients against putting their social media channels in the header space of their website. I I think you’re absolutely right. Social media channels, they, the social media platforms, they really don’t want you to leave. Their platform and they do everything in their power to keep you. In their platform. So unless you’ve got a particular reason you you know you’ve got that person off of the social media platform or off of Google or whatever it is to your website, you you don’t want to send them back there. I mean maybe, again, maybe there are some specific reasons that you might want to if if you are, you know, a social media guru or whatever it is that you know, but but yeah, they they they really like to hold on tight and they don’t like. Sharing their data because ultimately it’s it’s their revenue, it it it’s, you know, people people spend the the time that people spend scrolling on their social platforms, eating up their adverts are are, you know, they’re they’re eating up their attention span all these bits and pieces so. They’re really protective, but. Yeah. So while we. Don’t tend to get too involved with digital marketing. We do set up operations for to allow people to effectively, you know, connect their services to the website. For instance. Yeah, a very common request we get is, can you connect our website so we can have a sign up form in the footer or pop up. Or whatever it is to our male to to our malar lights. I know I have. Had a look. At Malar light to be there, it’s a lovely platform. It’s a lovely platform. But, but you know in in Claudio and and whatever that and and and that’s such a such a nice way because as you say when you’ve when you’ve got that sign up for you know, as long as they’ve opted in and it’s all GDPR client compliant you you’ve got that sign up and there’s someone that you can really nurture they they’ve they’ve shown a a direct interest into your business they take the time to to add their their details. UM. And yeah, I I I think that there’s and maybe taking us a step further that there’s so many people that that focus a lot on and and I’m guilty of it too that that fix a lot on getting, you know, new customers through the door and and actually sort of nurturing your mailing list and upselling and all those bits and pieces. And I’m sure, you know, it’s, you know, it’s. You know this inside and out, but it’s so much easier to tell to an existing client than it is to to get a, you know, to get a new client on board, so you know really nurturing that. That mailing list will have a much better impact than what I personally would say than than putting out a few posts on social media and but.
Kirsty van den Bulk
Yeah, awesome. Thank you. Because I think we there’s been there’s so much pressure on business owners to embrace social media. You must be on social media. You must, you must. And you hear it all the time. And I keep. Saying to people you need a presence and you need to be on brand, you need to have it linking back to your website. All of these things are really important and and you know I do a lot of content. I’m not gonna sit there and say I don’t. You know, I’m. I’m cutting some back on one of the platforms because actually I can’t manage it. And I I don’t wanna overload the the VA I’ve got. But I am on all the platforms and I use Pinterest because actually Pinterest is a really slow game, but it’s all SEO. So there’s a lot of stuff that I do, but I do. I was explained to someone. The reason I do so much is actually because I help my clients to do it and the minute. I come off. Something then I’m losing some of that, that push and pull. And they’ll ultimately, I’m trying to get them up the channel to come to me and trust me, but. You know, I I loved your insight there. So thank you so much for sharing that this is where the tables turn. This is where I have no idea and I do worry about this every week because I have no idea what the question has be. But you’ve been in the hot suits and now you get to ask. Me something and I get to try and answer it.

Josh Cox
OK. Perfect. Perfect. So, Get going back. I know. You know, I I know you like to talk and and dive into sort of people’s reasons for getting into things and and that’s what I wanted to take back, you know, go back for with with you. So you know, acting is such a you know, it’s such a desired career. I think certainly along a lot of children and even adults it’s such a desirable career that you see. Celebrities everywhere. That what made you get involved in the 1st place. What? What drew you to acting and and and ultimately, what do you think helped you succeed as an actor as well, you know, so many people, do, you know, stumble. And fail along the way.

Kirsty van den Bulk
So I found myself. I I talked about quite a lot. So I was born with this quite a big speech impediment. So I had an operation at 4 1/2 and that then I had to learn to speak. So I had speech therapy and I also had drama classes and through the drama classes I discovered I I could express myself. At the same time as doing drama classes, I was also doing dance classes through the at the same dance school where the dance classes came along, because actually my sister was knocked over when she was 5. So Mum, I’ve just put it out there. I told you I would one day and and my sister needed to learn coordination so as I. Was learning to. Speak. My sister was learning to walk and to talk and to move. So it’s quite an important moment in our childhood and through that we both kind of expressed ourselves. And I can remember. We planted this this there was a the dormer exercise where you had to get a seed and you had to plant it into the floor of the church hall. So we did it. And I was watching this flower coming up and up and up, which actually there was no flower. It was just in your imagination. And that one exercise to this day is still something that I hold dear because I saw the flower. And I watched it bloom and it was that imagination of being able to use my mind. And it didn’t involve this communication. And then I had to public speak. So I did a festival and and delivered my first poem in public when I was 6, which was quite. Which and and then I was in through. A dancing school. Show all of us, my brother, my sister and I at this point. So yes, Graham, you’re gonna kill me if you have watched this brilliant tap dancer. My brother. So we were performing and an agent called Doran. English was in the audience, and she wanted to take on my brother and I. I mean, we were incredibly acute. My brother was bright blonde and. I was very small and tiny with. You guys and my my mum’s saying no. You have to take on all three of you because you have to take on Lisa and of course, disabled children. We’re not the norm in the 70s on TV and we all started doing auditions and it was as simple as that. We started doing auditions from about 7678, something around there. I got my first. Actual paid job when I stole my brothers audition. It’s really awful. So he’d been invited to audition for Heinz baked beans, and he went into the room and I was sitting outside, but I was tiny and really, really small. And they went. No, no, no. We want her in the room now. I hated baked beans, and I went into the room and I think it was Michael. Sayers was the casting director, and they said, do you like baked beans? I went. No, I hate them.

Kirsty van den Bulk
Knows me very, really knows me, is what I say. I’ve always been pretty blunt. I’ve always been. I’ve always been pretty honest and and and in some cases a bit too brutal. But at that age I was worse because I hadn’t got the philtre because I was, you know, 6-7 or eight. I got the job, my. Brother was very angry but. He’d been working for me. And dig the floor cleaner, you know. He’s fine and and then from the advert I we both Graham and I got hind spaghetti and then behind spaghetti work with Vanessa Ford and I played a child in the Shakespeare. Well, not you’re not allowed to say and. I was just. Bitten. I recently found out that I got panto. In Ashcroft I didn’t know, but the school wouldn’t let me do it because you had to could only work a certain amount of days. So I had a really successful child acting career. But it’s brilliant. Then I went to art said, and you weren’t allowed to take any work. And it was like ohh OK, but this was serious training. So I trained and trained and trained and I graduated by that point, I wasn’t such a keen on dancing because I realised I wasn’t as good a dancer as people like Adam Cooper, who was a principal server. It’s the the royal valley. So yeah, let’s be honest, I was never gonna be as good as Adam, but I could see that that wasn’t. For me, but I did hoof and I got into 42nd St and I worked my **** off and I wasn’t the best dancer and I had to have special rehearsals because my arms are too long. They are really long. You’re next that. Next time you see me. And then I hung up my dancing shoes. And actually, I’m going to put it out there that the reason I managed to get acting work wasn’t always because of talent. It was because of the connections I had. So I was married to an actor who that one broke down because it these things do happen, acting, acting. It’s a lot of pressure when you’re not both working, but he had a lot of connections and I met those and then I was casting going out for for meetings and through the connections I met through my ex-husband, I managed to get a really lovely career and I I will put a shout out to David. I I wouldn’t have got the acting work that I got as a as an adult if it hadn’t been for David Mackay. He was so his David Mackay. Brilliant, brilliant man. He is a actor in his own right. He is a director. Him and Peter Mullin are just a power duo in Scotland and Davy was the person who saw something in me. So I was. Struggling like many, many people, and I sang a karaoke bar. In Glasgow and he turned around and went. I didn’t know you could sing. And at that point, he went, you’ve actually got something, and then he got me the gig at my parents. Aliens. I did that twice. He got me the gig at my at Basil Brush and he got me the gig at Shoebox Zoo. So I’m gonna put it out there. I would not have had a career if it hadn’t been for actually meeting my ex-husband and then meeting David Mackay. So, you know. Ohh gratitude. I know the relationship broke down, but it wouldn’t have happened because acting is hard and. And it’s a lot of luck. It is a lot of connections and when I left then I left when I left my first house when. I left my career it. Was as simple as that by that point. It was just it was. It just wasn’t right for me any longer. So. So there’s a sadness because, you know, there always will be, but. I am grateful.

Josh Cox
Thank you for sharing. Yeah, honestly, there that was. That was lovely. That’s lovely to hear. Yeah.

Kirsty van den Bulk
Yeah, a little bit of a long one because it’s it’s not just people think that you are going to. Get go to drama school. You’re gonna graduate, and you’re gonna get a job. And for some, that does happen. But a lot of people have never been to drama school. They’re just natural. And they make it. And they’re good. And, you know, David is one of those. He is. He started, like me as a child actor and I love and genuinely love the man. So yeah, there you go.

Josh Cox
You know it. It’s there’s, there’s there are, there’s a lot that can be said sometimes for for circumstance. For instance, I probably would have been never, you know, never would have been part of the Great Britain squad had I not gone to school in, in Didcot because ultimately there are very few, you know, that’s a world class sort of weightlifting. Enter there says lottery funded there. There’s a fantastic coach, great team. But yeah, I mean, had I been born slightly, you know, you know, 15 miles north or something to having dinner or whatever it was, maybe. Yeah, and. And so I I think, yeah, there’s a, there’s a lot to be said sometimes about circumstance, but but ultimately as well you know you you said it I think it comes back to a bit of hard work. You know what you said is is you put in a lot of effort to get there and to go through your education, your trading. So it it’s that sort of combination yeah I remember. Hearing a quote, it was something along the lines of luck as opportunity multiplied by preparation, you know, and it’s that similar thing. So opportunity is the, the the fortunate that you know you were you were able to to meet those people but the preparation you put in just really just enhanced that. You know many times over.

Kirsty van den Bulk
Like you, there was a lot of draining. Thank you so much for joining me this morning. It’s been an absolute pleasure. Make sure you drop your link in the comments that this will be also uploaded on Spotify. So and Apple and all the other platforms out there. So do make sure you everyone can get in contact with you and thank you so. Much for your time.

Josh Cox
Thank you very. Much for having me on that. It’s been lovely.