The Wise Why

Paul Anderson
Well, good morning, Kirsten. Look, thanks for getting me on this. Show I know. You’ve been dying to get me on here. For quite a while. So you’ve managed to just, you know, wrench me on to here, but no, I really appreciate it. I’ve been working in security since 93. I’ve done loads of things in the past, centralised security for Enron, work at Home Office, Bank, Bank of England Foreign Office, been in the industry for years. My passion is trying to do it right because everyone does it wrong. I could expand on that. Maybe a bit later.

Kirsty van den Bulk
Also, but you didn’t start in security, did you? I mean, this is the thing we know and I and I love this. So a lot of people who watch the show are from the security industry, but the people who aren’t. Can you explain what the security industry is?

Paul Anderson
What the security industry is, well, that’s a big question. You know that’s multi layered question you know so. Probably I’ll take you back a little bit, Kirsty. So I mean you you brought up there where I sort of started from. So I was in retail since I was 13 delivering papers. Then I worked for the Co-op group when I was 15. At 18, I was the department manager for the Co-op at 20. I was a store manager for the Co-op. 21 I I helped implement the ecosystem that was bringing out the new technology into the supermarkets. For the Co. And working in these rough stores, you realise that? You know you’re looking at, you’ve got a few things. Look after staff for one, but your stock and things go out the door. So people nicking things. The CCTV systems weren’t adequate enough. So hence why our reviewed security. The security guards weren’t trained, you know, they didn’t have enough training, didn’t know how to handle themselves, didn’t know how to handle people. So again, that made me understand security is a very big, big part of what we do. And in 93 I was still working for the Co-op. I basically started the little company up doing security, bought an intruder alarm, stuck it in your house for that easy, did some friends and family. I I then sort of worked for Barclays Banking. Reading put a little system in for them. Gokudera did access control, CCTV, intercom and this was all part time while I was working in retail. So that’s how I got into security industry. To recap what you said, what is the security industry? It’s about protecting assets. You know, whether that’s people, whether that’s, you know, physical assets in your building, how do we protect that it as well as part of that. And that’s what I do. It’s not just look at one aspect of security. It’s about how people use technology, how they operate things, how the business works, how the physical building is, how the IT infrastructure is and how we can make everything safe. In a nutshell.

Kirsty van den Bulk
Brilliant. And no, that was brilliant because when you hear the word security, you do and and it’s different when you’re in industry, but when you’re out of industry, you think of security and you think of maybe a camera wall. You don’t necessarily think that your fire alarm or your burger alarm is connected to that. You don’t necessarily think you know you might might. A online retailer and pick up some wireless cameras and you whack them up, but you don’t know if they’re really gonna work or how the solution works. And and it’s just interesting to share, actually. Security isn’t just. What you see? It is a lot more from what you don’t see and and for instance, the project we were working on was a MPR, you know, automatic number plate recognition. I haven’t said that for a long time, but. And at that point in 2014, that technology did not exist.

Paul Anderson
It it was a. It was an early technology been around for quite a few years, but I think what the biggest drive that I have is is. Understanding businesses understand their operational needs. A lot of people going to look at reviews, security but don’t look at how the business works and how things, how things come together. And I think when we sat down in a meeting, it was a simple question for me. What are you trying to achieve? And once you understand that, you can then just deliver what you need to do. And I think we, I turned around in that meeting and gave a proof of concept within about 5 minutes. Just bringing the camera they had that didn’t work into it on the laptop which was running the software and just showed them it actually working straight away and that’s what sells. You know, it’s about delivering something and making sure that they they see it actually working. So that was, yeah, it was good meeting you then. So you bought. Bought me a coffee as well. So thank you.

Kirsty van den Bulk
I always buy my guests coffee. Don’t worry. And you know, next time I see you show coffees on me because you’ve been brave enough to come on the show. So yes, everybody.

Paul Anderson
But you’ve made yourself one this morning, and you haven’t even offered me one. Kirstie, come on.

Kirsty van den Bulk
Well, it’s a. Bit difficult with virtually yes. I’ve got my plain cover.

Paul Anderson
Well, you could still put a. Virtual cap across the screen camera.

Kirsty van den Bulk
I love that about you. So talking about that life on screen because I think this is brilliant. So you’ve been doing one this. This is a 2 prong question for you, one TikTok and two acting, can you expand a bit on those two for me?

Paul Anderson
Yeah, well, life gets boring then it Kirsty? So I challenged myself to get onto IMDb. This would have been around. Five years ago now, I think. And it was around Christmas time and. On on Twitter I’ve got. A lot of producers, directors, various people in film don’t know how, just just what I was thinking. I’ve got the people in that industry. And one other directors have posted out, he said. I’ve got the part for a drunk bank. So I tweeted back. I can do a drunk bank with me. Ice closed. He come back said yeah, we’ll try to do it anyway. No funding from that. And he contacted me just after the Christmas period. He said I’ve got another one from Moody boss. It just so happens I can do Moody boss very well. So. So that’s how I got into that. So I did a. Little series which is on Amazon and. Yeah, it’s independent film. It was done with a mobile. It’s a series called Silent Eye and the series I was in was you have been chosen and it was about 3 scenes in in, in, in this sort of a little series. So that was quite interesting. I then went to a Film Festival in Switzerland. I handed award over it’s Film Festival. I met a director at the bar chatting to him about the film industry. He wanted to change the film industry and I wanted to change the security industry. Because, you know, adapting it, he went off through a little part in a film he was doing, which then went to the States and. Won an award. Again, independent film I had about 15 seconds. It wasn’t. It wasn’t my 15 seconds which which got the award. But again it it it was about challenging myself. How can I get on my? It was about five months from thinking about it to actually doing it, and I’ve got about 5 credits now, just little bits and pieces.

Kirsty van den Bulk
That’s brilliant. And now you’ve expanded onto TikTok.

Paul Anderson
Well, yeah, it’s again. The theatrical sides. Too busy to go do anything in. In film. We’ll get back to doing something on screen and I like performing. I like shouting, screaming, hollering, doing things. So I thought I’d try TikTok and see if I could conquer TikTok. It’s a bit of a hard beast TikTok so, but I’m on nearly 4000 followers, 30,000 likes. People like something about me, I don’t know, but yeah, it’s just a bit of fun.

Kirsty van den Bulk
But that’s the thing about you, and this is something I’ve always, you know, since I’ve known you is you set your mind up minds eye on to something and you achieve it and then you’ve achieved it and you go and set yourself your your eye on another thing. And I’m. Not gonna use the. Word target and the buzz word at the moment is goal, and I don’t necessarily. Some people are really goal driven. I like I. I like to think I evolve. And I pick my next a bit like you. I I pick where I’m going to go next and I’m going to achieve it because I’ve got this drive to get there. I’m just wondering what gives you that drive, that ambition and that focus to do what you want to do.

Paul Anderson
I guess it’s. Up pregnant. You know, you. You look at how you’ve been, you’ve brought up. As a kid. My dad worked damn hard. He was in. He was a car mechanic previous to being a car mechanic. He was in the. And trade. And he was a textile technologist. Basically, how you put patterns onto clothes and the house he he built all machines and. I feel he restricted himself because he had an opportunity to go to the States and because we were young, he decided not to and I think you she should have probably gone. And I’ve sat down with him before he died and talked to him. About this a lot. A lot. He had the the great ability and he had great skill. He was on tomorrow’s world, showing people how this machine worked. New machine that come out new machine because he knew more, the manufacturers did. And I guess I’m picking up a lot of those traits. I do know a reasonable amount about security, but all nuts and bolts. How things work, how things come together and what I tend to do is always looks outside the box is look at things that are. I drive myself because I just want to be as best as I can as a person and give back to people. So TikTok is about, you know, there there’s a there’s a lot of people on there with mental health. There’s a lot of people on there struggling. There’s a lot of people that use that in that COVID COVID period that need to be lifted and. I I I go on there just to have a bit of a laugh seeing go dance. Whatever. Just to get emotion from people just to make them smile like you are smiling. You’ve got lovely smile.

Kirsty van den Bulk
Talk about smiles. You don’t smile in photographs. Now you’re smiling. It took me ages to try and get you to get a smiley photograph, so. Yeah, I might. Still one of these.

Paul Anderson
You just so yeah, I I I hate smiling. But I’m I’m I’m sure it’s different. Sitting in front of a camera and taking a picture. My phone is going left, right and centre at the moment so people are going. I can see you now.

Kirsty van den Bulk
So you’re smiling now. So I wonder, because I think we’ve got, we’ve got something which I won’t go into, but I know that things that happen in our childhood can fuel us. And you’ve talked about your dad and you know, I know the the way that I’m driven and I don’t know if part of my schooling, my dad was my dad started to work at 14. My mum worked evenings when we were growing up so Dad would come home from work and then actually a lot of the time you would go back out to work and mum would go to work and I would have the, the, the neighbour come over and look after us so it doesn’t sound. Particularly great, but then mum would be back from work, so it wasn’t like we were on our own and we weren’t. It was very much like we were not middle class, we weren’t working poor but poor. But we weren’t rich either. You know, I can remember hiding and mum’s gonna kill me with this, but I can remember her working out that one week. She could pay the the rent or. She could pay the milkman or she could pay the Coleman and I remember being told to duck down and hide and used to him. Did you see who it was? Now we’re paying that one. Hey, Duck back down again. We’re not paying that one this week. They’re paying that one next week. Now, that is a real firm memory of my childhood. Of us ducking down under the table. The hide by the window so they couldn’t see us as close to the window as humanly possible. So if they looked in, they wouldn’t see us.

Paul Anderson
Yeah. No, it it’s like, you know, childhood memories. I mean, pick picking up there, about being, you know, not poor, but, you know, with without money at certain times. So I used to have a boiled egg for for lunch. And then I think one day my mum introduced bacon. It’s like, no, I want. Big Bacon was a luxury. It was like, you know. So yeah, everyone’s been through those, you know, hard times and stuff. And it’s what makes you as a person, you know, it grounds you, you know, you appreciate everything you get, you know, you appreciate your family, you appreciate, you know, money coming in. You know, it’s those little things.

Paul Anderson
Which I think make people.

Kirsty van den Bulk
So who’s inspired you on your journey? Cause you know you’ve been you’ve got this drive and you’ve talked about your dad. Your dad has inspired, inspired you. But is there anybody else that’s really inspired you on your journey?

Paul Anderson
Inspired me. My dad’s drive, my mum’s empathy for life and and loving life. I I guess it’s, I don’t know. It’s just just just in Britain, into me. I don’t really use anyone else around me to motivate me. I’m self motivated. I’ve had quite a bit of crap in the past to me that work, I think. But it’s it’s about how you.

Kirsty van den Bulk
It’s OK.

Paul Anderson
Get yourself up. You know everyone gets knocked down. And you’ve gotta get, you know, get yourself up. You’re the only person can get. You out of a new map? What you gotta think about is not if you get about asking for help there. If there’s people around you, you can’t always get yourself up. So I’ll ask for that little help and a friend of mine bow. After a lot of aggravation and trouble. He was always there, so you know, and you appreciate that to your friends. And it’s been my, you know, lifelong friend since I was 11. You know, so always around. And yeah, yeah, I’d say he was one of the not motivate us, but people that just guide you and keep you on that straight and narrow path, shall we say.

Kirsty van den Bulk
That’s that’s incredible. I’m just gonna put it out there because I know that some people are watching this live that for some reason, any questions are not feeding through. So if you will put any questions up, we’ll come back at the end of it. But for some reason, they’re not feeding through this morning. So that’s a shame because I was looking forward to some because I knew. That that would be interesting.

Paul Anderson
Quite a great Kirsty I apologise for that.

Kirsty van den Bulk
No, don’t apologise for that. I think it’s really funny. Thank you. You’re security guy. Have you been in the back of my network? No, I’m joking. I am genuinely joking. And so we’ve talked. Your friend who’s inspired you. I’m wondering about where in life you’ve had those moments where you’ve had aha, good ones and bad ones. Ohh, we’ve got a message come through finally. Yay. Halley’s with us. I’m gonna go straight to that. Haley says it’s it’s great to hear this stuff that makes you and you. Kirsty has always has a beautiful week to open the true core. The person, Haley. Thank you, Paul.

Paul Anderson
Thank. Thank you.

Kirsty van den Bulk
Nasty. So yeah. So who where have been those moments in life where you’ve had those aha moments of, like, good bits, bad bits. Maybe it’s made you pivot because these are the things. That I know I’ve had plenty. I’ve got a massively wonky career.

Paul Anderson
Yeah, there there’s a lot of things that sort of kick you. So Mum was 20,008 when she passed away. Dad 20,000 and 11, brother-in-law, was 20,000 more. Dad was 20,012 brother-in-law 20,012. I changed career in 20,012 because I had a passion of where things were going. What the big, you know, big company. Well worldwide company and I think you get lost as a number. Within that organisation, so I just started to make. A change I. Have some personal things going on, so I had a lot of things, not negativity for quite big, big period of time. And I think it’s just keeping yourself focused and making sure that you was looking forward. You know, people think about, you know, when you’re when you’re looking forward, it’s about being here now and viewing forward rather than living in in the future or rather living in the past. You’ve got to live for now while looking forward. And that’s what I did. Just concentrate and go. Right. Let’s just focus on what we need to do.

Kirsty van den Bulk
That’s probably why we became friends, because I think you’ve got to live in the now, have an eye in the future but not dream. Yeah. And and also one of the things I’ve learned in life is, is life is. Full of hair. Pin bends. I love that that kind of phrase, but you can think you’re going along a road and it’s really lovely. And you’re having a really good time. And then this bend comes up that you weren’t expecting. And you don’t know what’s on the other side, and you either take the leap of faith and just follow it, or you’re standing. You go. No, it’s too scary to go around. And I think you’re one of those people that goes round that then as fast as you can and said, alright, bring it on.

Paul Anderson
Yeah, I I do tend to put my foot down. I mean for for me. Because when we met 2014, I basically started at 6:00. In 2012, I started that as a design company for security, looking at networks, looking at cameras, look at how things come together. I I felt there was a big gap for that because when I was a trainer for a vigil at the time, looking at CCTV. People just didn’t understand networks didn’t understand depth of field on cameras and everything else. I then got dragged into consultancy while doing that. And I worked for a software company because I was just doing things on my own. I worked for software company called Teleco doing on plate recognition. I worked for them from about 2014 to about 20-17, about three years. I’m trying to get that product out. 2017 I decided I need to sort of start making a change, so I exited out of intellect about 2018 thinking right, I need to concentrate on success. I had my best year in 2019, better year in 2020. COVID obviously kicked in 2020. But having a good year for brilliant, no one knew it be two years. So you I 2019 I was reading the website and the marketing strategy we were pushing out loads of things going. On COVID sort of kicked me in the tooth for 2021. So many delays in contracts, so many things that delayed it. And again, you could probably give up and go right, we we we can’t carry on. We’ve got people to pay, got loads of load of overheads have to start restricting back. Just kept on moving forward at the moment we’re we’ve beaten well, it’s 1 1/2 times last year’s turnover already and we got loads more things coming in. So I think it’s just about keeping your head up keeping straight and. As you say, put your foot down and get around that corner as quick as you can.

Kirsty van den Bulk
It is just inspiration and I remember the call we had because I had just put my LinkedIn page up and you you reached out and said let’s talk and we we had a conversation and you’re like what you’re doing and I. Said, I’m finding my feet. I’m not really sure yet, and I think that was 2020 and now 2023 it you know, I I shelved the company quite quickly, but 2023 here I am now very clear on what I do and you know I was talking about yesterday and this is what is it, is it marketing? I went no, it’s communication. I really wanna. Say and and be very specific. It is communication strategies that I work on no matter where they are. No matter what it is, if it’s on camera, wherever we go, it’s how you communicate it. That’s what I focus on. But if you’d ask me that in 2020. Yeah, 2020, I wouldn’t been able to say that. So I’m just wondering if there’s been an evolution and a a change in the in what you do and how you go to.

.
Paul Anderson
Yeah, I suppose with. Predominantly consultancy in sort of 2019-2020. People don’t wanna pay for advice if it, you know, cause COVID, you know, take saving money. So you’re moving some more, sort of like an FM project management role. You’ve then start managing contracts, looking at contracts. So we’re just finished buying for department transport, which is quite a big contract for us. Yeah. Managing that and delivering that. Down on the embankment. Just because I I adapt, you know we can’t just do one thing. You have to look at the the business and think right that’s dried up. What else can we do? We’ve got skills. Let’s let’s try to do something different. And I think what you did was focus on not necessarily what you’re better at but what the industry needs. You know you looked at that and it is about communication. It’s it is about how you get that message out and how you deal with people. I get repeat. I don’t. You know. I’ve got a website, it’s a rubbish website. I get so many companies that go we we do this for you. I’m not interested. You know, I deal with people I talk to. People you know, and that’s about the communication part. So once I talk to people, we understand who I am. I tend to get more work not being big headed. It’s it’s just about giving that you know, right approach and right delivery.

Kirsty van den Bulk
I think that’s really key cause my last blog was on about the the human connection and I think it’s really important in the world with automation and AI is driving technology and driving the way we do things. I think the human element, you know, people buy from people and yes, there is a point where 80% of your sales are done before any human interaction. That that human interaction piece is so, so important. I know that if Halley’s listening, she will agree on this because people need that. Action and that’s why this the the wise wise way is it’s about us connecting, showing who you are, showing who I am, but more importantly showing that we have worked together and that we’ve got that trust and we were debating this on a call yesterday about what and and I’m gonna pose it to you this because I want. To cause I’m being. Awkward, but trust. We talk about trust and sales, and we talk about. What trust is? But I said, you can’t have trust without respect. Because you don’t respect someone you don’t trust them so, and once the trust is broken. I don’t know if you can necessarily get it back unless you’re immediately onto it and you apologise and and you you lay it there with transparency. I don’t know if you’ve got anything to add on that.

Paul Anderson
Yeah. Yeah, you. You’re right. Yeah. You gotta trust people and. It’s it’s like everything in life. If you if you do loads of good things, so they only remember the one bad thing that you do and it’s about your approach in dealing with that bad thing and how you how you try to replicate you know fix it. So I think in the past anything that has occurred. I’ve always taken it on the chin and going right. We’ll we’ll fix it. We’ll get that. We’ll get that right. And I think if you if you have the right approach rather than shy away from it and say, yeah, I I not. Not me, I wasn’t. I didn’t do that. Just take it on the chin and just go look, you know, hold your hand up. And I think that can then build the relationship back, back, back up because you’ve taken. They respect that because they’ve take you’ve taken ownership of it and you’ve come back and and made it right.

Kirsty van den Bulk
Yeah, and and it is, it is, I think you’ve got to own your and my daughter said it’s me yesterday she was at gymnastics and she came out and we we talked about magical mistakes. I’ve mentioned this before. So there’s no such thing as a mistake or an error. It’s a magical mistake because you can learn from. It or you can evolve from it and she said I didn’t make any mistakes today. And I said well, perfection is a moving target. You really don’t need to be chasing that. But I do think you have to own it. And I said that to her when if you do make a mistake, it’s OK own it. You know, own it and say I made a mistake and then get back up and do that cart. We’ll do that, that whatever they that. I don’t know what she called them, some kind of thing on some kind of rings do that again but own the mistake. So thank you for sharing that the table gets to turn this is where I get a bit worried you let’s throw some questions at me. And I get to worry that it’s gonna be something that I can’t answer, so. Feel your boots.

Paul Anderson
Well, got ohh. Got to really think deep on this, Kirsty. Just wanna say big shout to Hayley. Cause what? What? We picked up on then about people? She is bubbly. She’s lovely. You cannot help but like love the lady. So her selves approach is is brilliant. You know she gets in there and she gets people to love her and that’s why she’s Great salesperson. So that’s.

Kirsty van den Bulk
Yes, she is.

Paul Anderson
That’s for you, so. Your acting career expect talk to me about what you’ve done in the past in that you’re acting because. You touched on.

Kirsty van den Bulk
One, yeah. When I started when? I was so I. Started I was born with a speech impediment, which I’m really honest about, so I had an operation at 4 1/2 and had to learn to actually speak so I couldn’t close any constant. Rounds off, so the first time I actually spoke in public was I I recited A Milnes lines and squares at A at a. A some kind of festival. Anyway, I got an award for it because everyone was blown away by it. Two years on, I’d already been signed by an agent because I’d been in a dance show and she liked the way that I performed. So I was signed by Dorian English and that started our whole career as a child. And so I was very, very, very busy as a child actor. And so I did things like hindsight, beans, hind spaghetti. I was on a TV pro and called I remember Nelson. I modelled for Mothercare, yes everybody. I have been a model way too short now and it was really good fun. The the list of stuff that I did was was good and there was some theatre stuff in there. So I played. I was in there, did some stuff at the national in the the IT was the cotton at that point theatre. So I had a really lovely. Career. And then I went to art fair. And of course, that career stopped because Art said was all about training and development, and it was really difficult, actually, from going from being the best dancer, the best performer in your local dancing school, 21 of and this is gonna sound ridiculous, but one of 26 because of only 26 in the year. That these 26 children were incredibly talented. There wasn’t anybody in that the the the to get into the school was was hard. So at the age of 11 I was auditioning. So I auditioned for the Royal Ballet. I auditioned for Elmhurst. I thought I was gonna be a ballerina. And on my first ballet class at Arts aid, I looked around the room and I knew I wasn’t good enough. Now that sounds really ridiculous. That at 11 years old to make that decision, but I knew I was not a good enough dancer and I would never be good enough. And I was the best dancer, all with distinction in my local valley. And I wasn’t good enough, and I took the decision then that I was going to focus on drama. So it was a big decision at 11 years old. So I really got into understanding. I I knew. I knew a lot about Shakespeare, but I really got into understanding the nitty gritty. I graduated arts at 19 because I stayed on under the musical theatre course again at 16. I knew that the. Easiest way to get my equity, but more importantly I could keep my grant was that I cause I’m a grant scholarship kid. I knew that I could sell the musical theatre course if I worked my **** off because my dancing was good. Enough, but it wasn’t the best. Yeah, so I worked my **** off to get into the musical theatre course. Did the musical theatre course. And graduated knowing that I hated dancing, absolutely hated it. I hated being in the musical world. It just wasn’t me. And and saying that I love singing and I would go back to the musicals tomorrow, cause now I miss it. But at the time, I wanted to be this actor and it was like this drive that. And and it was in in a lot of ways. It was a foolish drive because I. I should have. Stayed doing the singing and doing the bit of the dancing. But I had this drive to be a straight actor and and then I got into after hanging up my dancing shoes from 42nd St I started doing the whole thing of low budget, low paid. And training films. And then I got into some really amazing TV programmes. So and all three of them won Baftas. So I’m really proud to say that I was in. My parents are aliens, basil brush and shoe boxy. And those are my big things and even. Now with people watch, my parents are aliens, they will come up to me and go my names. Not Jessica. It’s Charlotte and I write. Ohh no ohh my. Goodness. So I still get recognised for my parents are aliens. So yeah, it’s I played this part in that and and I feel really lucky that I had that. And then when I met Dennis, I wanted to buy a house. And as much as I love and I love performing, look at me. I’m doing a A a podcast, you know, here we are live. I’m presenting. So I did. Some presenting work for. Nintendo in Intel whilst I was an actor, so here I am still performing. But I couldn’t buy a buy a house, and that is the crux of the matter. You know? One day I looked at it and went. I’m going to end up in the act as benevolent home and I really don’t want that. I want to buy a house and at that point I was in my mid 30s. I was single after getting divorced and I wanted a family and the I love performing. But I use. To be we used to be 7 and a. Half eight stone. If I went over 8 stone, I was back down to working out and and desperately trying to to keep fit because you had to stay in your casting tight and actually the the the the level of anxiety that it brought, do you know what? And I love it. But I also won’t miss it if that makes sense.

Paul Anderson
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Would you ever go? Back once you have time and yeah.
Kirsty van den Bulk
If so, I I bumped into somebody which I need to reach out to Tom Grubby. Actually when he was on episode 15. Otherwise why so Tom and say hello. Yes, they I would jump back. There’s a rolling 42nd St that I would love to play. Dorothy Brock. There is other things I would go back to it tomorrow in AH. Got beat because I’ve had enough time away that my mindset shifted and so I’m actually in the right mindset to go back, which probably sounds really silly, but actually the time away has made me a better actor. Yeah, yeah. There you go.
Paul Anderson
Very good. Yeah, interesting, interesting parts Kirsy

Kirsty van den Bulk
Yeah. Well, I think I think it’s these chequered path paths, these winding, wonky careers, you. Know if I look back at. It goodness me, you know, I was running teams of. Yeah, 2025 girls for Nintendo launching Wii Fit, and I was because I was. I’ve gone through the divorce. I was pretty horrible and tough. You know, I think that the person I was there and. I’m like, oh. Yeah, yeah, there’s a word that should be used to describe what I was, and it starts with a B and I feel sorry for anyone that came across me at that point. It wasn’t deliberate. I just. It was really good at what I was. Doing I was brutal. And that brutality was what was needed at the time, but that brutality also. What broke me? So you know, I remember the day that I realised I didn’t want to be that person anymore and and that was a big, big shift. And then a couple months later, I met Dennis and now look at me. Hi yeah ohh I I do have ones. Nothing. But that’s fine if you you know, you’re gonna get lots of energy coming from me. Or some kind of purple hair. Paul, thank you so much for sharing your story with me this morning. I really. Appreciate your time.

Paul Anderson
I’ve been an absolute privilege, Kirsty. Thank you for inviting me so.