The Wise Why

Kirsty van den Bulk: Good morning, and welcome to The Wise. Why? This morning, I was joined by Maureen George. Now, we were discussing, as you heard in the studio, because we go into the studio before we go live and do a little conversation and a warm-up. And we do this so that I can stop my nerves and my guests can stop their nerves. Um, and I don’t think people realise we have this beautiful 15 minutes before we go live. But I’m not even going to try and say Morin’s Company because I’ve been trying for a long time. As people know, I’m Dyslexic and dyslexic, and I struggle a little bit with certain words. So, Maureen, over to you. So I cannot be a fool this morning.

Morin George: Good morning, Kirsty. Thank you for inviting me to The Wise. Why? So you pronounce it as Tamayo.

Kirsty van den Bulk: Tamayo. Awesome.

Morin George: Tamayo.

Kirsty van den Bulk: And what exactly is Tamayo? Hopefully, I got it right.

Morin George: Yeah.

Kirsty van den Bulk: Okay.

Morin George: Um, so it’s made up of my daughter’s initials and my name. And the last bit, the IO, is lovely because it’s half my name, Ayo, daily. And so the Ayo means joy. So, as I said, initials from myself and my daughters. But the last part is the joy. So I put it together and checked on the Internet; what does this mean? And then I thought, as long as it’s not something dodgy. It was a Mexican artist; I thought that would do. Yeah.

Kirsty van den Bulk: Brilliant.

Morin George: Yeah. So there was no clashing. So I love it.

Kirsty van den Bulk: It’s a beautiful name. It is. And I think we’ve talked about how powerful a name can be, should be, because it is who you are. And I watch my daughter grow into her name and do the same thing I did that she doesn’t like. I do like it. Doesn’t like it. I do like it. But please tell us what I’m going to try and say. Tamayo does. I hope you’ve heard right.

Morin George: Yeah. No, Tamayo, it’s fine. Tamayo, um, is a fair-trade brand. I worked in Fair Trade for about 20 years. So, uh, the values of Fair Trade and how they operate are fundamental to me. So when, um, Tradecraft went into administration, I left before they did that, um, because most of us were made redundant. It was essential for me to carry on that work. Um, I started my career in fast fashion, so it was like Topshop, then River Island, then worked for Wholesalers, and then moved into Fair Trade. And when I moved into Fair Trade, I was looking for jobs. And I came across it and thought, what’s fair trade? So, intrigued, I went for the interview, and I was like, as if I stepped into a different world. I was like, wow.

Kirsty van den Bulk: This is what you do.

Morin George: It’s about social impact. Um, so I joined the company. And it was only when I went on my first trip to India that the whole thing hit me. And I mean, it was like, when you say the AHA moments or the game changers, um, meeting the producer groups, hearing their stories, I cried. That was how deeply it affected me. So I’ll tell you, there are many stories, but one in particular, I went to St. Mary’s, um, in Amdabad in uh, India. It’s the Gujarat region. And, um, these ladies embroider beautiful embroidery. And that region has the religious, there’s a bit of conflict, them coming together, so they’re quite separate. So you got the Hindus, the Muslims, the Christians. And these ladies come to a centre and get piecework, the embroidery, and then take it home so they can work at home with looking after their children, et cetera. And M, these ladies are from the religious, different religious backgrounds, but it’s just the power of women. They come together, get their work, get to know each other, and all that is put aside, right? And the fact that they learnt the skill, just a needle, changed everything for them. Become financially independent, have a bank account, enough for medical care, and send their children to school. It was eye-opening, and I just thought one needle made all that difference. And there’s so many stories, and you get to sit with them, um, watch them work, give them some brief, design brief, and see how they interpret it. So it’s about sharing those skills and ideas. So, co-creation is just really powerful, but it’s just making sure they feel respected for their skills and what they bring to the table. That, to me, is so important, and I love it.

Kirsty van den Bulk: And unless you’ve travelled, and I’ve been very blessed in my life, particularly in the last 20 years, to travel and see different parts of the world and seeing at that needle or, um, watching children kicking around a plastic water bottle, and we think about the disposability of a plastic water bottle, but that is their football. There is nothing more empowering and humbling, in my opinion. It’s that cultural thing, isn’t it, that we sometimes, particularly me, white middle class, living in rural Oxfordshire, um, I forget about the bigger picture. And what I love is what you do and how you empower. You’re sitting here wearing your earrings. Can you tell us the story about those?

Morin George: Yeah, I love my earrings. So these are, uh, recycled paper earrings. Um, they’re cut up, rolled, painted, and varnished. Is it all water-based or healthy? Not healthy, eco-friendly. Um, and it’s by women artisans in Eswatini called quasi-design. And um, as I said, there’s a community there, and it’s all fair trade. It was started by Dorin Dorin, a British lady, who went out there and set this group up. And I love I’ve known them for many, many years. I’ve never actually had the chance to visit them. I’ve known Dorin for many years working at Charadecraft and just continued the relationship. Um, so it’s just amazing. I have a post up. I do quite a few posts on them anyway, but there’s a recent post with Jabu, who does all the administration and the order processing. But I will be showcasing all the other women artisans in the group. But it’s the fact that they’re using up waste paper. Um, and they are creating such beautiful products. Um, when I sell on the market, it’s great because I come first face to face with the customers to tell the story. And so many people are amazed, wow, it’s made of paper. They assume it’s something else. And I’m like. The brass bits are the hook and the ring, but they’re just amazed.

Kirsty van den Bulk: How long have you been selling? This is, uh, a podcast. So, what markets do you sell at? Uh, so people know where to find you? I know you have an online presence, but where do people find you?

Morin George: Portobello mostly, and Queens Park, like, once a month, but Portobello every weekend, Saturday, Sunday. Um, so, yeah, I’m there. And what’s nice. It’s been a year, but now I’m getting regulars or people coming back, or what else have you got? What’s new? And that’s lovely. I’m buying something and seeing that people are so impressed that I’m here selling fair trade, eco-friendly products. Recycled paper, wooden bees, recycled fabric, everything’s organic. Um, cotton, natural materials. They keep saying, keep doing what you’re doing. Um, we’re so happy to be able to come and see it just passing by. And suddenly, they come across me, and I’m telling them these stories. And some people hang out for, like, ages. It’s like, oh, tell me more. So I get so much out of it by having that face-to-face. So it’s brilliant.

Kirsty van den Bulk: But you also have customers that preorder because I was looking at your Instagram, and there it was. Somebody had wanted a belt from Guatemala. And then they waited. So tell us that story because I thought it was beautiful.

Morin George: Her boyfriend came along just before Christmas. And, um, she was across the room in Queens Park. And he said I want to get this for her quickly. And I was hoping you could put it in the bag quickly. And I said, okay, so what’s her size? He said, I’m not sure. And I said, okay. Um, all right. Looking at her and trying to decide. Anyway, we put it away. Then he returned and said, um, I had to give this to my sister because it was too big for her. So I said, okay, I don’t have your size. Um, and I will have to order. And she then came over as we were having this conversation, right? Um, and so she was like, I love that belt. I’ll come back to you later on it. I’ll come back when you have my size. So he returned anyway to say that it didn’t fit her. What can I do? I said, I’ll preorder it for you, but you have to wait a while because it’s all handmade. And then we wait for the shipment. And so that’s what happened. So she finally picked it up. Um, and you can see her face. She loves it. And it’s just so nice to see that.

Kirsty van den Bulk: I love your customer excellence. I was at an event yesterday, and we talked about customer excellence and going that extra mile for your customers. And that is what you do. You take customer service. And what’s lovely is you’re working here at Portobello Market. And I think a lot of, and I’m going to say it loud here, I think a lot of corporates could learn a lot from you because it’s straightforward when you’re up there punching, you’re doing a lot of business to forget about actually that individual personal tick box. And you are doing that beautifully. And because you do it beautifully. And because I’ve been following you on Instagram because I know you through the tech pixels. You are on the show because you excel at customer service. So, um, yeah, thank you. Tell us about you. How did you come to work, promote, and sell at Portobello Market? Where did you come from? You’ve talked about TOPSHOT River Island, you’ve talked about your life in Fast Fashion and then finding walking through the door of Fair Trade. But what were you doing before Fast Fashion?

Morin George: Yeah. Before fast fashion, I was just a student. I did a degree in politics and economics. So completely different. I came across the Merchandising rule, um, for a fashion company. So that’s how I started. I didn’t have any clue about really what that meant. And when I got there, it was all about numbers and stock allocation. And I thought, m. And I saw the buyer dealing with all these lovely swatches, design briefs, and colours. And I thought, oh wow, I like that. Let me see if I can move into that buying. So you start as a buyer’s assistant and then learn the role. So that’s how I moved up in that way. And then, as I said, the real work for me started as a buyer in Fair Trade, visiting the producers, um, seeing the grassroots level and seeing how I think because it’s not corporate and everything is not fixed. You go there, have ideas, and have the briefs, but then you see what is there. You have to deal with what they’ve got. They can’t always have access to every single type of button or trim. So you start with the raw materials, build on their skills, and go to the markets with them and get ideas. So it’s very much, um, it’s that heritage, bringing in their heritage, culture, and skills. And I must say, travelling, being very privileged to see some of the beauty in India. The mirror work, the embroidery, the design, the block prints. Um, it’s just amazing. And I love it. And I always get goosebumps even talking about it. I get goosebumps. Because what you can create together, of course, we think about the target market, where you’re selling that product, but it’s also about opening up that space and saying, if you didn’t know about this, let me introduce you. This is something different. Why not look at this and be educated about this? I’m half African, I’m half Nigerian, and I love, um, our patterns. Adira. And we do tie dye as well. And we have some beautiful prints and some beautiful techniques. Wherever you are in the world, there’s something beautiful to bring. Like the Guatemalan belts. They’re all handmade; they’re all unique. So you give the ladies the same colours, but those same ladies will recreate something different and unique. With those colours, the pattern will always be different. So, everything you get is unique. I mean, how fabulous is that?

Kirsty van den Bulk: Amazing. And your passion is incredible. So we’ve talked about that and how great it’s been. Have there been any moments where you’ve just stood in the pouring rain thinking, Why am I doing this? I never love that.

Morin George: That’s why I get up in the morning. I stayed so long working at Tradecraft because I was always learning. And when I say learning, I mean learning from them. Every trip was exciting. I would work till really late. I didn’t mind. I wanted to get the most out of it learn. There’s so much power in learning about what people have grown up with, their traditional skills, and their heritage. They’re proud. And we should have mutual respect because they’re carrying on those skills. Because many younger people move out of the villages. We hear the stories all the time. It’s not sexy anymore. They want to go and earn money in the city. We know technology, things are moving very fast. But when quasi-design started this, it wasn’t sexy to talk about recycling; um, they were using what was in their community. And this is why I was saying it. Use what you have around you. It’s not always easy to go and get something else. And they started it years ago, and now we know this is so important. They’re getting a living wage. They’re in a community. They’re supporting each other. It’s women’s empowerment. Children can go to school enough to look after themselves build their homes, and you’re using waste. And it’s so beautiful. I mean, it’s so stylish. And, uh, one thing about Fair Trade I want to say is, years ago, people thought it was a bit hippie, bohemian, the hemp shirts. And, uh, even I had that impression of it. But over time, I learned that, no, it isn’t. It is beautiful, unique, and, more importantly, handmade. And I remember the time we used to almost apologise for any defects. Oh, this block block print has a little bit of a defect and oh, so sorry, people come back and say it’s faulty. No, it’s not. It’s part of the beauty. So educate your customer about what this means and how long it takes to make the fact that it’s not coming through a machine, right? They’re putting their love into it. This is what is so important. So, for me, I have never thought otherwise. I get up at 430 in the morning to go to Portobello Market on a Saturday, and I’m dead. And I get home about six shattered, sit down, and go, what a day. But that’s what it’s about. And when I was a buyer, I didn’t get that face-to-face. Right? Now I do. I love it. Because, like I said, people tell me they give me the feedback immediately. I know what it means to them. And when people say to you, keep doing what you’re doing, there’s nothing to think about, right?

Kirsty van den Bulk: Yeah. Absolutely. So something I didn’t tell you the other day was my mom through the church. She used my dad and used to go down to the Fair Trade Depot, pick up lots and lots of stuff, take it up to the church for the Sunday, sell it and then take it back. When I think back to that, that was about 20 years ago. Um, but I grew up with Fair Trade coming through the church through my childhood. And I don’t talk about my life in the church often because I don’t go these days. But, um, I pop in, I pop out, and I’m very much a fair Weather person regarding Christianity. But I was brought up in the church choir, and Fair Trade was a huge part of our lives, and we had people who would come over from Kenya. I remember sitting in the church hall as a child, and we were given popcorn and curried cabbage. Now, at that point, I was a young child, and I was like, I’d never eaten a popdom, and I’d certainly never eaten curried cabbage. But that was a meal in Kenya. And that was a real moment that stuck with me for my entire life. We can pop into the shop, get whatever we want, and do many different things, but it’s simple. And that’s what you are talking about here. We are talking about somebody with a needle empowering others and being able to send their kids to school. And it is incredible. And I for 01:00 a.m. I will do this for you because you are still doing it. And it’s just so thank you. Thank you for sharing.

Morin George: You’re welcome.

Kirsty van den Bulk: Someone’s calling us.

Morin George: I put it on silent.

Kirsty van den Bulk: Please don’t. I think it’s brilliant. This is what happens when you go live. I love it. And please don’t ever change because I want these things to happen live. Because nothing should be perfect. And there is beauty in the imperfection, which we are discussing here. Ah, that these women are making things that, uh, aren’t made by machine. Right?

Morin George: Yeah. It’s amazing. The power of learning those skills and what it does and transform their lives is amazing. And when you were talking about the food, I was thinking back to, um, one time I went to visit the artisans in a village, and, uh, they went and got me a can of Coke. I don’t drink coke. And I knew that that coke costs a lot of money. And I was like, I didn’t drink Coke, but I had to take the Coke because they’ll have been offended. But I told them, please, you didn’t have to do that. Chai is wonderful. Chai gives me more energy than the Coke. But it’s just that they thought that that was the right thing to do. But how wonderful and humbling they would spend their money to make you feel welcome. And I mean, they didn’t have to do that. I just met such wonderful people, which is what I want to stress. And it has changed my life. And there is no question about how we should work and operate and why it’s fair that they get a living wage. There is no other way to operate in that system.

Kirsty van den Bulk: And you just bought goosebumps. Because when we went to Gambia, years, uh, and years and years ago, um, we were invited to someone’s house, and they asked us what we like to eat and did we prefer rice or Kuskus. And we are in England. Kuskus is cheap. We don’t think about the cost of Kuskus. So there I was in my naivety, saying I like Kuskus. So they went out and cooked a meal for us with Kuskus, which was expensive. And we were greeted with a can of Fanta. And, um, neither Dennis nor I knew what to do because we knew we were sitting in this stone breeze-block house. I will try to describe it so people understand it because it was a breeze block house. And in this house was the guy that, uh, had invited us when we asked him how old he was, he didn’t know. He didn’t know when he’d left school. He left school to get a job because he supported his mother, his sister, and his sister’s children, and his other sister was about to move home. They had one roof in this breeze block house that had a roof, and they all stepped in there. And for £50, he could build another extension. He could build his kitchen, which was his dream because he was cooking on a little stove in a um, karate pot kind of thing. This is where the kids were kicking, um, um, the bottle outside. So we gave our money freely so he could build his kitchen and extend his house. And we also gave the money because we couldn’t go and get a football. So we gave the money to go and buy two leather footballs. It doesn’t seem like much to us. The whole thing cost us about 55, maybe £60, to that man and that family. It was massive. And so sometimes I think it’s straightforward to forget. And I try not to go on a political rant there, but I think it’s straightforward to close our eyes to what is happening in the real world. So that was me on my rant.

Morin George: Yeah. And there’s a lot about the greenwashing. And so, um, like I said, Fair Trade has been going for 40 years, and now there are all these greenwashing people on the bandwagon. And I’m not here to criticise anybody. I am not. I do what I do, try to be authentic, and tell the stories. And as a small startup, I can’t travel as much as I used to in the corporate world. So when I can, I’ll tell more stories and shoot those videos. But in the meantime, I ask the producer groups to share as much as we can, and I’ll get onto my social media and do what I can. But at the end of the day, I think people should step back and think that if anyone is shouting too much, question yourself: why is that? Just hear the stories and make up your mind. And, like I said, that’s all I’m trying to do. Um, and just when you look at what I’m offering, it’s natural materials, it’s handmade. I think it just says it all. I don’t need to say more than that.

Kirsty van den Bulk: Just brilliant. So, who inspired you along the way? I’ve heard about the women you work with and the clothing you sell, but who inspired you? Who’s been there?

Morin George: There have been so many people. It’s, um, the women behind the producer groups. So many of them are getting producer artisans together, may not speak English, et cetera. So the women who run these, like Moon from Tara projects. There are many of them, and I don’t want to say just one and leave loads out, but there are so many, right? Um, in all the different parts of the world, marikuchen in Peru, ALPA, there’s J, Sri, Manjin, there’s Dorin. So many of them say, oh, no, Becky, there’s so many women. And that’s why it’s so powerful, because, when you look at those countries, these are informal sectors that are making up. They’re giving that economy so much, yet it’s not always shouted up, right? And when I was looking at the statistics of women founders, um, how much investment they can get, it’s kind of like something per cent. And then when you look at it as a woman of colour, it becomes even less, and it’s like, well, what am I going to do? So I thought, you know what? I’m just going to start a little and grow. And, I mean, I’m passionate about sustainability and this word, people say it’s overused, but Fair Trade was about the fair wage. We also thought very much about the environment. Hence, we use natural materials and natural dyes. Things are handmade. It’s slow fashion. But some of this terminology wasn’t there when we started, right? Slow fashion is a new one, but that’s what we are. Um, and we always try to ship by sea. So we’re thinking about carbon footprint. Um, like I said, the natural dyes, that’s for the environment. Also, many of these artisans would do crop rotation; therefore, that’s the regenerative farming people are talking about today. So they either grow the cotton and when it is grown, they can put the vegetables and the soil nutrients, the biodiversity, they have a few animals. So, all of that is not new. It’s all coming back now, and we’re talking about it because of the climate crisis, right? So, when I think about what fair trade means and sustainability, it’s the social side. But like I said, I wanted to make the point that we’ve also always thought of the environment. But the social impact, the social justice, um, it’s people. It’s the people behind the essential product. But now, um, as you saw in my bio, I’ve just completed a carbon literacy course, certified, and also at Cambridge, the Circular Economy and Sustainable Strategies. And I did that because I wanted to learn more about the key terminology, the new updates, what’s going on. Um, and that leads me onto the blockchain. Um, I’m starting to learn about blockchain, and that’s just a system where you can add data along the supply chain, and you can’t cheat. So it’s like the artisans could say yes, I get paid a fair wage. So it’s there, in the system, and anyone can trace it through. So it’s very transparent. And to me, that’s just an enabler. Like circular economy is an enabler. It will just make fair trade and what I’m doing more efficient and more transparent, and that’s a good thing. Um, and this circular economy is fascinating, um, this fact that you can close the loop. So I’m looking into a project, uh, about second-hand clothing. I don’t know if annoyed is the right word. Angry about the clothes being dumped in landfills in different parts of Africa, right? And many other regions of the world. I’m not discounting it, but I’m looking at Africa. I’m half African, and I want to see how we can bring that technology there and gather, um, because most of it that is sent over is just plastic. It’s made from polyester, et cetera. And some of them burn it for fuel and all that toxicity; the fumes go into their lungs. It’s in the rivers. Um, all the microplastics are being leached. So we need to be able to gather that and do something with it and shred it. Um, and that’s expensive. So, um, I’m trying to work with others to see how we can move forward with that and maybe get some machinery and do something about it, um, so that Africa has some solution as well because a lot of these machines are in Bangladesh, Vietnam, et cetera. Spain, Portugal, whatever. Um, but it’s about time we try to find solutions for Africa, too.

Kirsty van den Bulk: Awesome. Thank you for sharing that because I think people forget that there is a directive that we’ve all got to embrace sustainability by 2030. And, um, I was looking at it last night. It’s a minefield. I know that I’ve made changes in the way that I run the business. I consider I’m paperless as much as possible. My business card is bamboo. It’s Reusable. Um, they know the brand name out there. That is very good. Uh, DM me if you want the information. My car is green. I went electric. All of those things that I do, I’m educating my daughter. We were reading about Green is the Planet last night and its little bits and steps. She was going on about a particular, very well-known brand of, ah, a toy that comes in a ball, and you open it with lots and lots of plastic. And I was going, no, it is plastic. Plastic, plastic. Thankfully, they have improved to be fair to them. And the balls are now made of recyclable material, but it’s all about that. We made a pillow and went to a known hobby place, and, um, there I was looking at the stuffing for this pillow that she made, which was posted on LinkedIn. We used recyclable bottles as the pillow. So we’ve all, every. A single person has to take a step towards sustainability. We can do that by going and looking at your stall in Portobello. We can do that by investing in buying products from you and other individual, unique people. I’m not on a rant. I’m not. But, uh, thank you so much for sharing that. We’ve had some incredible comments from Haley saying the paper earrings are beautiful. And Luke. I love Luke Steele. I’m going to get him on the show. I am. Luke, you’re coming on the show, says, driving passion. I love it. Love it. So this is where the tables turn. Although I’ve just been on a rant, you may not need to realise it. Um, this is where the tables turn. And you get to ask me a question.

Morin George: Yeah. It’s lovely to hear that you have always had fair trade in your life. So that’s brilliant. But I wanted to ask you why we do things over time. Has your why changed? Have people that you’ve, um, interviewed, have they influenced you? And has it changed along this way?

Kirsty van den Bulk: Hugely. Um, my whole business has changed because of the wise why. When I set up the business, I originally wanted to do it as a support marketing sales function. I don’t do that. I do, but I don’t do that. Um, the Wise Wire has inspired me. Steve Rush, uh, episode I can’t remember right now off the top of my head, he runs The Leadership Hacker, which is a brilliant podcast. And, um, because he was coming on the show and around the corner from me, I started to listen to his podcast. That then took me to the hot sauce principle. The Hot Sauce Principle by Brendan, which is the name, has escaped me and revolutionised my work. So, I now think of tasks, and I use this with my clients. And I was talking to Rabina Shafe about this recently. The Hot Sauce Principle allows me to know how to allocate my time and the important tasks and those that aren’t. Um, so I’m much more structured. I have expanded and grown and am expanding the business because of the business insights I have received from people on the show. So, if I look back over the 54 episodes, including yours, the amount of learning I have been privileged to be sitting in this seat blows my mind. I am probably the luckiest person in the world because I sit here and listen to business leaders. I listen to inspirational people like you. And my brain is expanded, and I’m learning every time I get a new guest, um, on if I was to list all of them. Well, I mean, obviously, Joy Foster, she is inspirational. She is the reason I launched a podcast because, at the time, you couldn’t go live on LinkedIn unless you had a particular standing, and I applied and got it, um, Beth, for social media advice. Yesterday, I was at a networking event, and I walked in, and some people were on the show. They’re at the networking event. I felt supported. Some people who didn’t know me went. Are you a radio host or something? And I was like, no, but I do host a podcast. Oh, yeah, you’re the camera person. I’m like, yeah, I’m the on-camera marketing person. So I’m incredibly privileged, and would I stop the show? Does it get thousands of views? No, but would I stop the show? No. And the reason I’m not going to stop the wise why? It is because I get to showcase people like you, and you get to get this and spread it across your socials, and I get to lift you. So, yeah, I’m very grateful I launched this.

Morin George: That’s amazing. And when you say that, I want to thank people who have supported me. Um, I’ve had different mentors, which I don’t know if we have time for them to mention. Yeah, okay. So I think I started with Daniela and then Doreen, and they’ll know who they are. And then I had Debbie. Um, and I have Jay. And I have Alicia. Um, but I also have the Cams and Black Creatives, who gave me my first marketing event and a pop-up in Hampstead for about a month. So, they started that business journey for me. So I want to thank them because you get yourself out there, then you get that confidence because, as a buyer, you’re behind the scenes. Right? So that was the start of my journey. And I have to say, meeting people and talking about what I do is so, so important. And I will never stop doing that. That is, you know, you can see the product and hear the stories, you know, um, that is so powerful. So I want to thank all those people for helping me and supporting me, and I hope I haven’t missed anyone out because even Tech Pixie’s Joy, let’s even mention Joy, just helping me to get through the social media, I didn’t know anything about. So joy is so inspirational. Thank you, Joy, because that’s how I met you, Kirsty. So, let’s give a round of applause for Joy. Yeah. Very much as you were doing that.

Kirsty van den Bulk: I realised I should shout out to all the names. Um, oh, my goodness. Um, I’m going to see Haley, who was on the here. I can’t even think of her name, but Lollipop local, um, every single guest on this show has given you something, including you. Thank you for your time, everybody. Go. If you’re in London, go to Portobello. This is it.

Morin George: Saturday, Saturday, and Sunday. Yeah.

Kirsty van den Bulk: There you go, get down to Portobello and go and meet Maureen in person and buy some fair trade. Thank you so much.

Morin George: Thank you so much for having me. Kirsty, thank you.

Kirsty van den Bulk: No problem.