The Wise Why

During this episode Aina Gómez Pizá and Kirsty van den Bulk talked about the importance of creativity for our children. The long-term impact of Covid 19 on our children and the reason why Aina set up her business.

Kirsty van den Bulk: Hello and welcome to the wise Y’why. Ah, I can’t even speak this morning. I love that when your own mouth tricks you up. I am joined by Aina Gomez, who is someone that I absolutely adore. Um, we met on an offset course and from there, we have met at networking events, and we’ve become what I believe is firm, um, friends. But, as usual, the wise y is not about testify. Vanderbilt. It is about my guest at Aina. The floor is yours.

Aina Gómez Pizá: Good morning, Kirstie. Thanks for having me in the Wise wide this morning. Um, yes, as you say, I agree. I consider you a good friend. Um, and I haven’t met that much, um, that many friends in Oxford ever since I moved. It’s been a difficult time these last couple of years. Well, with COVID and everything, it wasn’t the easiest time to make friends, was it? Um I’m very happy to be here today.

Kirsty van den Bulk: I know we met, we were both on, uh, the offset course and we were doing, um well, we were learning, weren’t we? Because we met on one and then I think we met on another, and we were learning how to put the foundations in place for our business. And one of the things that you inspired me to do, and I don’t think I’ve ever told you this, was when I met you, you were changing your website and, um, I remember you talking about why now? At that point, I was proud of my website, but you had some really good pointers. At the time I didn’t really listen to, but a couple of months later I did. And I remember when someone suggested that actually, I completely revamped my website. I did. And I could hear your voice in the back of my mind, so I bet you didn’t know that.

Aina Gómez Pizá: Um, no, m, I didn’t. That’s great. But, yeah, websites always need revamping, don’t they? It’s that thing that you sort of leave, like, oh, well, I have a website, but it needs updating and revamping constantly, really, ideally, and thinking of the user experience all the time. So, um, yeah, I always think that my website is behind needs, stuff, doing.

Kirsty van den Bulk: I love the varied work that you do, because when I first met you, you were a photographer. And then I found out that you also run a theater school. And then getting to know you, I found much more about how many languages, do you speak?

Aina Gómez Pizá: Um, well, properly, um, I say at this level three, really. Um, but I speak a few more as well. Um, and I can understand and manage in a few more.

Kirsty van den Bulk: What brought you to Oxford? Just because I’m being nosy.

Aina Gómez Pizá: So, it’s been a bit of a strange journey for me to get to Oxford. I actually first moved to the other place, um, Cambridge, uh, from Spain, from New Yorker. Um, and I moved to Cambridge. Really? I wanted to move to well, I fought the UK. I wanted to move outside of Spain, um, because I haven’t actually I hadn’t, up until that time, ever lived abroad. Um, I traveled, but for a limited amount of time and then come back, uh, or lived in Spain, back in Barcelona, Madrid. And then always came back to the island because it has some form of, we call it the rock. And, um, well, the little rock. And it has some form of attraction that we always sort of come back. Um, and that’s what happened. I always sort of came back to Majorca, um, and I wanted to go abroad, but I wanted somewhere I could easily come back to, uh, and I could speak the language properly. Uh, so, uh, for me, that was the UK. So, I sort of, you know, well, this is a good place. So, I went to Cambridge. Um, I did know a couple of people there, which did help. Um, and eventually when I wanted to start a theater school, um, well, that drove me to Oxford. Um, not that I couldn’t have done that in Cambridge, but the path led me to Oxford. Um, that was where six years ago, I’d visited and loved it. And that’s what sparked my idea of moving to the UK. So, I thought, Things are coming into place. That’s where I need to go. Um, so that’s how I ended up there.

Kirsty van den Bulk: That’s just amazing because people think and particularly, I’ve lived all over the UK. Um, and I have, but I’ve not lived abroad. Um, I go abroad because I see Dennis from Holland, so I go there a lot. And, uh, that’s very different to going on holiday. I have to say that when I go on to Holland, I’m going to see my family. And it is different to going on holiday because I’m not made by a beach or chilling, but it’s interesting to think about what it was like, and it must have been very strange. You came over, what, six years ago said, before the Pandemic, and then the Pandemic hit. That must have been a very difficult time for you, moving or the Pandemic, just thinking about it. And I’m sorry to ask this question once we live, but it must have been strange with your family back in Spain and you in the UK. Because I know that that was incredibly difficult for Dennis and I because we couldn’t see anyone, we didn’t see Omar and OPA for, I think it was about a year and a half.

Aina Gómez Pizá: Yeah. Um, it wasn’t that long until I saw my parents, because the minute, um, the borders were open, I traveled. Um, but it was two years, I think it was two years until I saw my brother and my sister-in-law and my nieces, because they live in the States. Well, they couldn’t travel at first because of the controls and then because of the um, well, it wasn’t easy to travel from the States for a long time. Um, so I didn’t see them for two years, which is, um, the point in me moving to England and not, I don’t know, Australia, was that I could fly back easily, um, and see my family. So, yeah, that sort of took that away. So, it was hard. Um, but with all the technology and everything, um, that wasn’t the hardest part of the lockdown. Um.

Kirsty van den Bulk: One of the things I know that we’ve talked about before, um, particularly, probably every time we catch up is the loneliness that sometimes we can feel. And that’s partly why we’ve got such a good community where we are. We do try to support each other, particularly as women. There’s a good group of us in the Abingdon Oxfordshire area that really do support each other and grab each other, and we see the other one falling. And that’s something that I think is very special. I don’t know if that would have happened before the pandemic if I’m really honest. I don’t know if we’d have caught each other the same way because we’re much more aware of it. Or maybe you disagree, I don’t know.

Aina Gómez Pizá: I don’t know. I’m Spanish. I think it’s in our DNA to be sociable, I think, and I’m being very sweeping generalization of that. But we are as a culture, we are very sociable. Um, but then in the last six years, I’ve had all those ingredients, um, that have led me to leading a more lonely life. So, I’m a single mom, I’m a widow, I’m an immigrant. Um, I was new to a city twice and I was running a business. It’s all those ingredients that make for, um, a lonely life. I have reached out to network because it’s in my nature to do it anyway. But let alone if the circumstances of life are pushing me against that, oh, no, you have to be on your own, kind of, because I’ve chosen.

Kirsty van den Bulk: So, I’m going to say straight away, you are never alone. Ah, you’ve got me. You’ve got a whole group of people who absolutely adore you. And more importantly, you are one of the bravest women I know. You have stood up firm. Um, you are bringing your daughter up and you are absolutely incredible. I didn’t know you were a widow, um, until 2 seconds ago. So, if I don’t know, I had no idea. But then I wouldn’t ask that, would I? It’s not something that I would come up to you and go, tell me your back story. It’s only because we’re live that we’re talking like this. There are things in friendship that we don’t necessarily go and explore, because we assume, which I hate that word, but we do assume. We know.

Aina Gómez Pizá: Yeah, obviously we don’t always know. I am that’s m, um, becoming a widow is the big reason why I became a family photographer. Um, my daughter is now nine years old. Um, and her dad passed away, well, almost nine years ago. So she was only a small baby. Um, which meant that when you have a baby, the last thing on your mind is taking photos because you don’t feel well. Because time is this strange thing that it no longer happens in the same way it used to. Um, so that happened to us. We didn’t take photos. So, I have one family photo, one photo of us three together, um, which is a treasure, of course. Um, a friend of ours of mine really took it by chance at a party. She’s not a professional photographer because she doesn’t want to, but she could totally be. Um, and, uh, she has all the knowledge and all the equipment, so she could totally be, um, a, ah, professional photographer, but she doesn’t want to. It’s a good, relatively good photo. Um, not the best time, all of that. It doesn’t matter because it’s there. The photo is there. We have it. I have it. I printed it out. It’s big.

Kirsty van den Bulk: Um.

Aina Gómez Pizá: After a while, I realized how important that was. Not just for me, but especially for my daughter having that memory, um, even though she was only a baby. But, um, it doesn’t matter. Photos can actually encourage those memories to become real. It’s very weird how the mind works and how, um, on MRI scans, those memories that can be induced by photography or other means. Sometimes they are no different. They don’t show up as any different as real memories.

Kirsty van den Bulk: Wow.

Aina Gómez Pizá: Yeah. So, you’re really literally creating memories when you’re taking photos, especially when the children are little. Um, I thought it was really important. Um, and that’s how my career switched. I used to be a filmmaker. Um, for a while I did something completely different, which was run a language school, because I am very passionate about languages, uh, and how to learn them and how to teach them. Um, but, yeah, I decided, you know what, this is what I want to do now. I want to help families capture those moments. And because of this, and then I’m always open to how paths sort of opens up for you. And, um, while doing that, I’ve met lots of business owners. So, I’ve also then gone on to a path of lots of personal branding photography to help them be more present, be more visible on their websites or social media or wherever it is they can be. Um, and little by little, I’ve opened up those different paths to my business and what I like and enjoy doing for my clients. But, uh, it always comes from personal experience, and it always comes from what I think I honestly think is going to work.

Kirsty van den Bulk: I genuinely love that. And I’ve seen some of your work and it is absolutely stunning. What I love about your photography is you capture the real person. And I hate my photo being taken. It’s interesting because people don’t realize that I absolutely hate my photo taken. I will die and hide and do whatever I can because I hate it. Now, that’s ridiculous, because I go on camera, but I like being on camera because I’m moving and I’m animated, whereas I always feel like a photo makes me just go, oh, but the memories and realizing how important the photos are for my daughter, and going through those photos, and we go through them a lot. We do a lot of up with photos in the house. It’s incredible. As she said, the memories, the stories are behind the photo. So, I have to get better, ah, at going on the camera for photos. And I go through our photos, actually, and there’s not many of me. Lots of my husband and her, but not many of me.

Aina Gómez Pizá: Um, in a family, there’s one person that’s never in the photos because they’re the ones taking the photos. And it usually is the mum. Not always. Not every family. Some families, it’s the dad, but normally it’s the mum. Um, they’re not in them. And it doesn’t matter, because when your daughter sees photos of you two together, or you three together, she’s not going to be judging you the way you judge yourself. It’s so true.

Kirsty van den Bulk: Honestly, I am terrible. And I think for me, it’s slightly different because I was an actor and we had to get professional headshots. Now, I don’t know anyone who’s ever had a professional headshot done, but you have to sit there and it’s like it’s just your head. And it’s like a turn of the head and a half smile, or a smile and a tip your head here. And it takes the fun away from having your photo taken. It really does, because you’re trying to get a photo that doesn’t show anything and yet shows everything.

Aina Gómez Pizá: You have a lot with one frame, whereas in a video, you have 24 frames per second, or 30, depending on the resolution of what you’re using. Um, but, yeah, it’s in one photo, in one frame. You have to say a lot. Um, but, yeah, I honestly don’t think I’ve ever had an adult come to a shoot and say, I feel comfortable in front of the camera. I don’t think I’ve ever had one. In fact, I’d say all of them go out of their way to let me know a few times that they’re really uncomfortable in front of the camera. Children are different. They’re fine. Um, but adults, no, none of them. Starting with myself. Uh, I’m not comfortable in front of the camera. Um, but then, normally, what I try to do is make those shoots as comfortable as possible and easygoing, so that it doesn’t feel like what you just described. Um, and normally you see throughout the progress of shoot how they start easing up. And it doesn’t matter anymore than I’m taking photos, because not every photo is important. And you start subconsciously realizing that not every photo I’m taking is going to make it to the gallery at the end. And, um, you hear me clicking away. So, you’re sure that, oh, come on, one of them has to be good. Subconsciously, those thoughts go there and then, uh, obviously if you don’t like them, you don’t have to use them. Ultimately, it’s your choice. Everybody does, thankfully, up until now. Um, but yeah, that’s the idea. That it’s comfortable, that it’s easy going.

Kirsty van den Bulk: M, I’d like to know about the leap, and I’m going to ask you about people who’ve inspired you, but I’d love to know the leap that you went I mean, I know the reason why you went into from filmmaking to, uh, family photography. That’s powerful. I’d love to know what took you into the film industry. Obviously, I’ve got a huge love for that industry. But I’m wondering what took you there.

Aina Gómez Pizá: Um, I realized, well, I think I’ve always known this. I, ah, love telling stories. I love communicating and I love telling stories. Um, and, uh, I’m writing a book, it’s nonfiction. Uh, and it’s about creativity and how creativity, uh, well, creativity has declined in children, um, in the last couple of decades. When there’s been research about it, it’s declining. Um, and what’s always been known is that as we grow, we lose it. But at the same time, that’s what we need for innovation and to move forward and to solve every single thing, every single problem in the world is solved through creativity. I’d say that’s the one overlapping skill of anything that happens. Anything that’s good in the world has a bit of creative genius in it, no matter what industry it comes from. Um, the book is about how to save that creativity. Um, and parents helping their children retain, um, yes, retain and grow that creative genius. And in the process, the parents can help their own creative genius grow. Fantastic. But it’s aimed at the kids. And during that process, I’ve realized that when I was, um, looking back, I’m at home at my parents at the moment. Um, when I was twelve, I wrote what I thought was a novel. Um, looking at it, it’s barely a short story, but I was writing a novel. I was sitting at a computer, typing a novel, um, and saving it on a floppy disk and printing it. But it was a novel in my mind. It’s terrible. It’s got all the cliches of what I was reading at the time. Um, but it’s yeah, anyway, and that’s what I wanted to do. So, I went on to study English, um, language and Literature as a degree, but also filmmaking. So, you know, and people thought, why are you doing those two things? They’re quite unrelated, um, because on the face of it, they did look very unrelated. Because over here, it wasn’t called English Language and Literature, it was called something more like English studies. So, it looks more like, oh, you’re going to be an English teacher. Teach English as a foreign language. So, for many people, those seemed like very, very different things. And I said, no, they’re all about understanding how people communicate in plots and how to tell stories. So, I think the underlying thing of everything I’ve ever done is either me telling stories or helping others communicate and express themselves. And that’s in everything that’s in the film industry. That’s in the language school that was at a very literal level. Um, um, with the photography as well, it’s about telling families stories or business stories. The theater school is helping children express themselves and grow up to be confident, to speak up. Um, and I can see that’s the underlying thing there of everything I do, and I’ve done, I love it.

Kirsty van den Bulk: And particularly, I would love to shout out to somebody in central government right now and go, Math? Really? Really? What about creativity? Because out the box thinking creativity. I’m creative, and I do everything I can to empower that creative mind. We look at Einstein. He was dyslexic. He was also creative. And it drives me nuts because if well, I was terrible at math’s. I’m absolutely appalling. Um, I missed, because of glandular fever, a whole term, maybe even two terms of math, and I’ve never caught up. And so, math is a complete and utter, oh, my goodness, I don’t get it. But the creative mind, playing those stories, thinking outside the box, that is what creative thinking derives. Sorry, I better get off my brand and my soapbox. But yes, um, and I saw your post yesterday, and I thought, yeah, I applaud you on that, because creativity the funding has been cut. I have to get off my soapbox. But the funding has been cut to the arts, and the funding has been cut to drama in school. And drama in school. You can workshop your emotions. You can free up how you are feeling. You can use improvisation to absolutely things that are happening that are really driving you crazy. You can workshop it out in a safe environment. And yet all the funding has been cut. So, I have to get off my

Aina Gómez Pizá: Box, especially in trying times. And we’re all acting as if the pandemic is over. And while it’s mainly over, maybe in the medical sense, um, it’s not over in many other senses. And one of them is the fact that children have missed out on so much. Um, and one of the things they’ve missed out of is any sort of enrichment programs that school might have had in place before the pandemic. Um, because the focus has been only on, um, math’s and literacy. Um, and everything else has been left to aside, uh, even to this day. In term one, my daughter did not do an arts ah assignment at all in school.

Kirsty van den Bulk: Oh, my goodness.

Aina Gómez Pizá: She’s nine. Let me add that m, I’m really.

Kirsty van den Bulk: Pleased my daughter’s not there. She’s at a school where thankfully, they have embraced that creativity. But it is very um, a slightly different way of way of educating and it’s not styling, it’s just a different way. And that emotional connection is seen as really important. And I’ve just seen Doctor Jenny say I was uh, not good at math, but brilliant at creativity. And you look at how brightly Doctor Jenny shines and looking at you are looking at 90% of the guests on The Wise Why, we look at um, Akeem, who is a thought leader, and yet he trained in film. And this is what people miss. As I said, I’ll get off my soapbox, but people miss how important creativity is for innovation. Innovation would not happen without it. Data does not drive it.

Aina Gómez Pizá: No, especially not data pushing boxes and stuff like that. Um, well I need to add that my daughter is no longer in that school.

Kirsty van den Bulk: World on you. And that brings on to you putting your daughter first, which I just, I mean, not without you being nourished. And that’s really important that we remember as parents, we have to nourish ourselves. Because if you don’t nourish us, we can’t actually be there for our children. But I love that you’ve done what you’ve done for your daughter. So again, brave, strong, and inspirational.

Aina Gómez Pizá: So thank you. Notice she has always come first, and she’s been an inspiration for a lot of things. So um, including for example, the theater school. Um, the theater school launched in September 2020. So, we’ve gone through lockdown, um, that first really hard one. Um, and one of the things I noticed, my daughter is, um, an extrovert. Um, so she gets her energy through other people, through being with other people, and all of a sudden, she’s a very confident person. And all of a sudden all of that was sort of shattered. And I thought, oh, I need to help her somehow. I can’t rely only on third parties now to sort this. Um, uh, the decision had been taken before, but it was definitely a driver because there was the option of maybe not launching in September 2020, there was an option of deferring that launch to September 2021, which would have been a much safer bet, but I thought to help with safety. There are more important things in life than safety. Um, so I just went ahead and did it, um, and opened at that particularly trying time, um, which wasn’t easy, obviously, because then we endured two more lockdowns that affected us. But um, we went online, um, and it was fine, actually. It was fine. And it was actually really welcome by the kids who did join us, most of them did, um, because that was their highlight of the week coming in. So, some of them would join us even an hour early just to hang out, uh, with their teacher. And the other kids, and it was just their highlights of the week. My daughter has definitely been a driver.

Kirsty van den Bulk: We were just talking about that before we came live because I was saying the driving force for launching this was as a, ah, small business owner, I lose that, uh, coffee chat. That get to the office, grab a coffee, grab your colleague, go for a walk, and have a bit of a chinwag before you sit down at your desk. And I really missed that as a small business owner, and that is what drove this decision to create the wise. Why was there were lots of other things, but one of them was, I wanted that coffee morning chat because I miss my colleagues. People don’t realize when you’ve been in an organization, particularly when you’ve been an actor, you are always part of a cast, so you’re always part of a team. And so not being in a team became really difficult for me. And yeah, so thank you for joining me for my coffee this morning. Which brings me on to who has inspired you?

Aina Gómez Pizá: Um, lots of people. I get inspiration from lots of people from all walks of life, and for different reasons. Um, sometimes it’s, um, something of their personal life. For example, when I started the language school, so that was, um, being I was employed at that time, it wasn’t my own business. Um, I was flown to Miami by, um, a company that wanted to hire me. I just launched the language school, um, to run something there for them. Um, that had to do with film, not with photography or languages or anything else. Um, and it was a, um, family run business, a Spanish family based in Miami. And I loved them, I loved the family. I loved how they ran their how they run it, um, and how they’d got to that point. Um, and we became really good friends. I didn’t take the offer because I just started the language school, and I thought it wasn’t the right time. Um, but we’re still very good friends. But just looking at the way they’d run their lives and they’d run their business and their family is super inspiring, even to this day, which is, I don’t know, ten years later, or I don’t know how long later. Um, and things have changed so much for them and me. Um, but I still look at them in awe and what they continue to achieve. Um, but it’s not maybe directly related to what I do, not in any way, but just looking at what they were doing and how they approached things in a very human way, um, even when they worked with huge corporates, but their approach was always very personal. And I love that. Um, and I don’t know, uh, lots of people are, uh um, I get inspiration from lots of people. Um, my grandma, for example, she’s she passed away during the pandemic um, not from Covid. Uh uh, and she was 96. She led a long life, but she’s an inspiration, um, for completely different reasons. She was someone who never, never fulfilled her, her potential because she came from at different times and a time where a woman was meant to be a certain person. Um, but she was a rebel and she rebelled. A lot of things she rebelled against, but not everything. And you can tell that those parts that she didn’t rebel against, she was then frustrated about later in life. Um, and that’s inspiring to me. It’s like, well don’t leave anything there because even if it’s small, you’re going to take it to your grave. I take inspiration from different things in different stages. Um, yeah, there’s lots of different types of inspiration out there.

Kirsty van den Bulk: I’m going to go back to brave. I’m going to say this. You are so brave. You literally embrace life. You jump into that rabbit hole, you have no idea how it’s going to come out, but you come up and you rise, and you are absolutely inspiring. I’m not going to ask for our heart notes because we’ve heard lots along the way. And you are absolutely I said brave. Um, what I’d love you to do is you get to ask me a question, though. I’ve got no idea. I always worry I have this little fear when I get to this point where m, they’re going to ask that. You get to ask me a question. So, I’ve got no idea what it’s going to be.

Aina Gómez Pizá: Okay. Um, it’s not for me personally, but, um, lately and thinking about that age group, 16 to 25, kind of, um, and that generation, I feel, is a very difficult that they’re living through a very difficult time. Um, and the pressure on academics, for example, even just saying that children must do math until 18, even though it’s not going to happen, because I doubt it’s going to happen. It’s not going to happen in the next few years. But just saying that puts a lot of pressure in that age group. So, my recommendation to you, my question to you would be, what would you recommend a 16-year-old today, uh, who doesn’t like schools, who doesn’t want to continue studying? What would your recommendation for them be? What should they do?

Kirsty van den Bulk: That’s really interesting because there’s lots of options and I don’t think people realize what the options are. So, you don’t have to go to college, you don’t have to go to university. You can do, if you want to, you can become an apprentice. So, you can find something that you’re passionate about and you become apprentice. You could do what one of my friends did, which, uh, she worked in Waitrose, and she sat and worked in waitress. Sorry, I shouldn’t have said that. Worked in a shop for a good couple of years, where she worked out what she. Wanted to do at, ah, 16 to 25, your brain is not formed yet, it’s not completed. You’re very grown up. And I remember thinking, I ruled the world at 16, and at 16, I was working in a department store which no longer exists, called Orders. I was also acting in between things. I was also studying musical theater, but I didn’t like musical theater. But I knew I didn’t want to go and do A levels because that was more academia, and it didn’t work for me. So, I went onto the musical theater course and, um, did lots of step ball changes and flip ball change, and pirouettes learnt how to sing. And I went off at 19 and did a musical 42nd street tour. And as soon as that finished, I hung up my shoes. So, I would say, if you were 16 to 25, live. If you want to travel the world, give yourself permission to travel the world. If you want to work in a supermarket, give yourself permission to work in a supermarket.

Aina Gómez Pizá: If you want to sit on the.

Kirsty van den Bulk: Crossroads and do nothing, give yourself permission to do it. And if you want to become an apprentice, go and do it. If you want to try being, uh, a footballer, or try being a dancer, or try being a seamstress, try it. Because the person I was at 16, to the person I am at 51 is completely different. If I had known at 16 years old, even 25 years old, 25, I was married for the first time. But if I had known at 25 that I was going to be remarried, the mother of a six-year-old, and running my own business at 51, I would have laughed. I would have absolutely loved myself, um, even ten years ago. So, I would say life evolves. Go live it. Don’t get stuck down at 1625, just go and live and experience life, because that’s going to take you forward. But that’s just me. I’m not saying that’s the right thing, but what I would say is, give yourself permission, because if you don’t give yourself permission, you’re going to load yourself with me. I should be doing this; I must do that. People want me to do that. And it’s the same thing I say to business owners, this is your business, this is your vision, this is your life, it is yours. So go live it. Obviously, stay within the law. I’m not saying go out there and I’m not saying go out there and do something silly, but I am saying live and experience, because that experience will take you forward to life. Mhm. I’m not saying that’s the right answer.

Aina Gómez Pizá: And it doesn’t change much later on in life, whatever you do at 16, whether you go to college or not, I mean, yeah, I don’t think it changes much.

Kirsty van den Bulk: So, I’m going to ask you the same thing, though. What would you say? Because I think that’s a great way to end because I’ve just said, yeah, go give yourself permission. What about you? Your ideas on that?

Aina Gómez Pizá: Um, well having tutored lots of children that age, especially I’ve tutored lots of children that were out of school for a number of reasons, those reasons normally came under two categories. Either they couldn’t go because they were ill, or they were excluded. Um, and the push was the same and it’s like how can it be the same? They are completely different, and they are out of school for completely different reasons and the push can’t be the same. The push should be completely different. Um and pushing them is making the problem worse, um, instead of better. And I’m brought here as a solution and I’m only making the problem worse. I obviously tried to steer it in a way that actually helped. Um, but yeah, so I would probably tell them to find something to do. I would probably not recommend them to if they wanted to not do anything. Not do anything. I think greatness or whatever ideas come from action. So, I’d say, um, do something, whatever, but do something. Don’t stay at home and watch TikToks go out and do something. Uh, whatever that is. Is it, um, joining a football club and training little children all day long? Or is it, um, working at a shop or is it whatever it is, but go out and do it and you’ll find your path. Pass will open up, but they won’t open up if you’re not, if you’re stuck at home, that’s not going to happen. So um, I’d probably tell them to go find something to do.

Kirsty van den Bulk: You are right, I said if you want to do nothing, do nothing, but um, at the same time doing nothing leads to inactivity and you are right, if you do something the path will open up. And Dr Jenny says living is learning. And it’s true. If ah, you live your life no matter how you do it, because you’ve got to live sensibly. But if you’re living your life in your experienced life, you learn and the synaptic in your brain all go off and it’s just wonderful. And the person I am today is not the person I was then, and I think knowing that that’s the wisdom that we have on with old bags like me. But um, as being an old woman, uh, the crown as they like to call her, um, I get to sit here and go, well I didn’t know. Yeah, at 16 I had completely different plans to where I am now and when I was 16 if a 51-year-old woman had said that to me I’d have gone, yeah, you know nothing, you are old. But there is a lot to be said about wisdom. So yeah, I have loved this chat, I really have. Um I will ask you to pop into the chat, your uh, website. So, drop it into people can see it. I will upload this onto the website so people can get in contact with you. But, um, I love your work, and thank you so much.

Aina Gómez Pizá: Thank you. Thanks for having me here. And, yes, I’m very happy to have spoken to you this morning.